Playoffs - Silver

Machinery vs Satanic Slaughter Clan

0 - 3

Game info
Reported: 2012-05-07	Comments: 8 Today: 0
Machinery-Satanic Slaughter Clan 74-280 @ DM3
Machinery-Satanic Slaughter Clan 125-283 @ DM2
Machinery-Satanic Slaughter Clan 212-226 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Gold

Suddendeath vs crazy 88

0 - 3

Game info
Reported: 2012-05-07	Comments: 11 Today: 0
Suddendeath-crazy 88 184-226 @ DM3
Suddendeath-crazy 88 152-294 @ DM2
Suddendeath-crazy 88 237-246 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Gold

Slackers vs ParamedicS

3 - 2

Game info
Reported: 2012-05-06	Comments: 15 Today: 0
Slackers-ParamedicS 254-146 @ DM3
Slackers-ParamedicS 261-179 @ DM2
Slackers-ParamedicS 168-319 @ E1M2
Slackers-ParamedicS 233-240 @ E1M2
Slackers-ParamedicS 241-188 @ DM2

Playoffs - Bronze

OClan vs Dinosaurus&Noobs

3 - 0

Game info
Reported: 2012-05-06	Comments: 2 Today: 0
OClan-Dinosaurus&Noobs 290-139 @ DM2
OClan-Dinosaurus&Noobs 234-127 @ DM3
OClan-Dinosaurus&Noobs 288-179 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Silver

Too Cute vs Suddendeath 2

0 - 3

Game info
Reported: 2012-05-02	Comments: 16 Today: 0
Too Cute-Suddendeath 2 90-260 @ DM3
Too Cute-Suddendeath 2 80-419 @ DM2
Too Cute-Suddendeath 2 168-275 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Silver

Too Cute vs Machinery

3 - 0

Game info
Reported: 2012-04-29	Comments: 7 Today: 0
Too Cute-Machinery 205-144 @ DM3
Too Cute-Machinery 298-107 @ DM2
Too Cute-Machinery 221-195 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Gold

Slackers vs crazy 88

3 - 0

Game info
Reported: 2012-04-29	Comments: 8 Today: 0
Slackers-crazy 88 291-169 @ DM3
Slackers-crazy 88 348-119 @ DM2
Slackers-crazy 88 244-210 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Silver

Satanic Slaughter Clan vs Suddendeath 2

0 - 3

Game info
Reported: 2012-04-29	Comments: 3 Today: 0
Satanic Slaughter Clan-Suddendeath 2 130-232 @ DM3
Satanic Slaughter Clan-Suddendeath 2 79-358 @ DM2
Satanic Slaughter Clan-Suddendeath 2 233-236 @ E1M2

Playoffs - Gold

Suddendeath vs ParamedicS

2 - 3

Game info
Reported: 2012-04-26	Comments: 13 Today: 0
Suddendeath-ParamedicS 159-266 @ DM3
Suddendeath-ParamedicS 230-154 @ DM2
Suddendeath-ParamedicS 251-213 @ E1M2
Suddendeath-ParamedicS 162-235 @ DM3
Suddendeath-ParamedicS 172-236 @ DM2

Playoffs - Gold

ParamedicS vs Demolition Crew

3 - 0

Game info
Reported: 2012-04-23	Comments: 20 Today: 0
ParamedicS-Demolition Crew 353-36 @ DM3
ParamedicS-Demolition Crew 390-67 @ DM2
ParamedicS-Demolition Crew 326-93 @ E1M2

.: Content

Signups, maps and more

2012-02-09 15:08 by Hooraytio

EQL15 is now open for signups!

EQL is back for its 15th installment. Signups are now open and will close on the 26th of February. You will most likely be able to start playing games within 2 days after the signups close. The season will be around 7 weeks long + playoffs.

The map pool this season will be: DM2, DM3 and E1M2. The reason for not extending the map pool until EQL16 is that there is very little chance of consensus about the new maps at this point. Therefore we will run a custom map tournament later this spring and use the two most popular maps from there in EQL16.

The format will be either 3 divisions as usual or 2 seeded divisions.

The seeded divisions would mean that your clan will face half the quakeworld scene in the regular season, probably around 12 clans as things look now. For some clans this will be easy and for some clans rather hard. Yes there will be rape games but this is quakeworld. It is not supposed to be easy.

You will then go into the playoffs vs clans from your own division and the other division based on the final standings. Lets say top 2 clans from each division goes to semifinals in 'Pro' playoffs and the other clans enter the 'amateur' and the 'rookie' playoffs respectively.

The positive thing is that there will be no chance of clans ending up in the wrong division either raping everyone or getting rape by everyone. Even the 3-4 bottom clans should have fun games vs eachother and possible also threaten a few clans above them. Top vs bottom will be one-sided but it is only a few games we are talking about here. The top clans will on the other hand have many easy games but since they are the top clans isnt this to be expected?

The main thing with this idea is to make clans face a variying opposition and bring the scene closer together. The division system has split up the scene for years causing large gaps between the clans which have been hard to bridge. With such a small scene left it feels wrong to keep a system that tears the clans apart.

In order to keep the seedings intact player movements and late additions will be very strictly regulated so add all players you can think of in your team from the start. This will make it alot easier to seed the groups.

Should there be massive opposition and little to no support for this seeding idea we will ofcourse reconsider based on the input we get. We will also consider some type of rookie division if there are 4 or more teams consisting of real rookies (not just rusty oldtimers).

Ideas, tips and tweaks are very welcome so feel free to comment.

Comments

Pages: 1, 2 | Previous Next | Total of 94 comments | First Last comment first

#1 Defcon 5 - 2012-02-09 16:09 (62.178.34.XXX)

Lets go!

#2 darkstorm - 2012-02-09 16:20 (95.64.194.XXX)

Well, finally

#3 dirtbox - 2012-02-09 17:40 (213.121.177.XXX)

#4 Muff1n - 2012-02-09 17:59 (89.253.70.XXX)

+10

#5 Kalma - 2012-02-09 19:30 (88.112.76.XXX)

-1

#6 andy - 2012-02-09 21:22 (84.60.144.XXX)

Great to hear you're back and will stick to the 3 map system until another decision has been made.
Also, I personally like the idea of reducing the divisional-thinking, however I'm not sure how this will turn out in reality and be accepted by the majority.

Let's see and hope for a great season!

#7 JohnNy_cz - 2012-02-10 09:27 (84.42.159.XXX)

How exactly will an average div3 clan benefit from this?

#8 Hooraytio - 2012-02-10 09:56 (85.228.250.XXX)

It depends what you mean with benefit.

The way I see it the qw scene is so small these days that we need to come together and play versus all clans in order to get an average amount of games per clan. Sure we could play versus the same 3 clans over and over but is that fun?

Why do we play? If we play only for fun i can see that it is pretty useless to have to play in the same group as fragomatic and suddendeath for example. But thats just 2 games. Are we all really that afraid of getting raped/waste 40 minutes?

Also, a problem before was that a group of friends had a hard time playing together if 1 of them was a star and the others where not. There are low skilled clans who wanted to bring in strong players before, when we used divisions, but simply couldnt or where too afraid it would put them in div2 instead of div3.

If you plan on becoming better it is a huge opportunity for any clan in div3 or div2 to be able to face some stronger opponents in official games. Alltho I doubt there are many clans with this mindset left.

Once the group stage is over you should be in a position to face very equal opponents. It also takes away the risk of having a misplaced clan that just cruises thru and win div2 or div3 easily. The better a clan is the higher up in the playoff hierarchy it will end.

Also, if it is too boring to take part in this kind of system for a certain clan but the majority of the scene seem to like it, you are always free to just prac versus the clans you see fit.

An average div3 clan pros and cons.

+ opporunity to learn from better clans
+ dont have to be afraid to have that good player on their team
+ playoffs will be very competetive as the clans entering each playoff will be very equal
+ you get better playing vs slightly better and moderately better clans (I know this isnt every clans goal)

- 2 or 3 rape games
- a few more hard games (dont have to be a bad thing, it depends)
- players might get tired of losing

More ideas?

#9 Hooraytio - 2012-02-10 10:07 (85.228.250.XXX)

One thing that strikes me as odd is that JohnNy_cz on one hand thinks that making new maps and even removing old maps (dm2 from 1on1 for example) would be very good for the scene and the ultimate goal for all tournaments. This is evolving the game and invigorating the scene.

But on the other hand having a div3 clan play a few official games versus div1 clans is not at all a good idea and will lead to utter ruin and disappointment and ultimately the downfall of qw.

I think you have to realise that there are several ways of having "fun" in qw. One is to play versus equal opponents all the time and another is not having to learn new maps and spending hours not knowing what you are doing when you can play at a higher quality on TB3.

I hope we can make it work so that all clans can play vse achother again, atleast during official games. It used to be like that in the beginning and honestly it was more fun when a less skilled clan didnt turn you down because they played in div5 and you played in div4. This started to happen right around NQR3-4 when the division system was introduced and accepted.

#10 niw - 2012-02-10 10:55 (212.237.86.XXX)

Sign me up! And if C88 dont have enough, feel free to contact me :P

#11 JohnNy_cz - 2012-02-10 11:12 (84.42.159.XXX)

Well thanks for the lengthy reply, even if it didn't really convince me this is a good idea. Still appreciate it though.

Also, I am not going to somehow "fight" for the rights of div3 endlessly, those players there need to realize that if they want something, they need to say it out loud. So far they are all silent so I guess they are perfectly fine with your new concept. If they are happy then I am happy too.

#12 jOn - 2012-02-10 11:29 (2.71.0.XXX)

+ 1 for Hooraytio

#13 Hagge - 2012-02-10 16:03 (212.221.52.XXX)

Sounds great, seems like it's time for me to start looking for my long lost keyboard :)

#14 Andeh - 2012-02-10 18:33 (83.251.63.XXX)

I LOVE this new idea. The ONLY bad thing I see it is that the lowest skilled clans will lose a couple of games and they might find that boring. But really, if you don't put time in it to get better, you WILL lose. That's just the way it is.

I love that the end-result of the groups will determine the playoffs, as in like, the bottom 4 clans get an own playoff which makes playoffs AWESOME for every single clan, and all clans will pretty much be equally skilled.

This is an AWESOME idea, and a huge thanks to whoever came up with it.

Also, everything is based on performance. Now you can create a team of whoever you want. You can have Milton + 3 div3players in a team. They would STILL end up in the correct playoffs, based on their performance.

This will FOREVER be a better system.

#15 Andeh - 2012-02-10 18:35 (83.251.63.XXX)

added something;

I LOVE this new idea. The ONLY bad thing I see it is that the lowest skilled clans will lose a couple of games and they might find that boring. But really, if you don't put time in it to get better, you WILL lose. That's just the way it is. And then you deserve losing. If you want to win - practice alot and you WILL get better, and you will start winning. End of story and there's no discussion to it. If you don't have time or motivation - well then you simply are going to lose. This applies to EVERYTHING in life, not only quake. Suit yourselves.

I love that the end-result of the groups will determine the playoffs, as in like, the bottom 4 clans get an own playoff which makes playoffs AWESOME for every single clan, and all clans will pretty much be equally skilled.

This is an AWESOME idea, and a huge thanks to whoever came up with it.

Also, everything is based on performance. Now you can create a team of whoever you want. You can have Milton + 3 div3players in a team. They would STILL end up in the correct playoffs, based on their performance.

This will FOREVER be a better system.

#16 Andeh - 2012-02-10 18:40 (83.251.63.XXX)

Besides, in the end of the day, this is a competitive game, so it's all about who's the best. Losing is a part of competitive gaming. If one is not good enough - he'll lose. Live with it, or practice to get better. And I think this system will even help people to get better, because instead of facing only beginners who knows as little about the game as the other player does, one cannot improve. You learn from practice and example.

Blizzard don't tweak StarCraft II after the bronze-level players. Organizers don't make huge tournaments to fit the bronze-level players.

#17 Andeh - 2012-02-10 18:45 (83.251.63.XXX)

Oh god... I don't think I can type today - this was what I was trying to say;

"Besides, in the end of the day, this is a competitive game, so it's all about who's the best. Losing is a part of competitive gaming. If one is not good enough - he'll lose. Live with it, or practice to get better. And I think this system will even help people to get better, because instead of facing only beginners who knows as little about the game as the other player does, one will face better opponents as well. One cannot improve from only playing people who don't even know the game. You learn from practice and example.

Blizzard don't tweak StarCraft II after the bronze-level players. Organizers don't make huge tournaments to fit the bronze-level players.

#18 jOn - 2012-02-10 19:16 (83.249.251.XXX)

Hagge :)

Gogogo Andeh!

#19 Hooraytio - 2012-02-10 19:33 (192.71.148.XXX)

Thx Andeh

#20 Kalma - 2012-02-10 19:38 (88.112.76.XXX)

Half the teams will play just the first round of playoffs. Not that "AWESOME" for them. Hardly saves a shitty regular season.

This system sucks for any casual low skill team. Rookie teams might plow through the season with enthusiasm... or get crushed and go play something else.

Best solution would be a divisionless system where you play a manageable number of teams that are closest in skill then forfeit or WO the rest. But that's too complicated for you lot.

Have a nice season.

#21 cara - 2012-02-10 19:45 (217.209.214.XXX)

Wow, this div3 whinefest comes as a great surprise to me.

#22 wille - 2012-02-10 20:07 (85.225.185.XXX)

I wonder why people can't stand to lose couple of games. I'd love to play SR fOu etc. just for fun :)

#23 D - 2012-02-11 14:06 (85.226.187.XXX)

Isn't it in everyones intrest to play even and exciting games?

Div2 was the shit last year, don't fuck with that. And Div1 should have been the best in years too since the topclans played eachother twice. Or maybe fOm and the others wants to play a few close and even games and a few where they've won with 500-0 before it even started.

I'd rather play a couple of teams twice than raping the hell out of a Div3 team.

#24 D - 2012-02-11 14:10 (85.226.187.XXX)

I'll add to what i just wrote:

QW today, for most i think, is just about having fun. Very few play their ass off and aspire to be the next Div0 superstars. So being "forced" to play clans 10 times better than yours is more "zzzz" than "great!! now i can learn!"

BLT in Div1 should be the perfect example of what NOT to do.

Just my 2 cents, nobody will benefit for wasting 40 minutes in a total rape game. Especially the Div0 clans that can compete with other Div0 clans instead.

#25 ParadokS - 2012-02-11 14:42 (77.105.214.XXX)

Just wrote a lengthy, almost blog-like post here, decided to delete it. If you can't say anything nice/constructive, say nothing at all :)

#26 ParadokS - 2012-02-11 14:44 (77.105.214.XXX)

I will respond to D though.

"BLT in Div1 should be the perfect example of what NOT to do."

Guess you failed to see the big picture. They totally handicapped div1 last season by isolating the top - this was quickly addressed by div0 community in a cry to get more teams there. Resulted in "open invitation" by admins for div2 teams to join and only blt stepped up - but admins already screwed the project by putting the "lucky" one's to div2 - why would they ever step up voluntarily after that. BLT would have had some good games if all teams signed in div1 last season actually played - as it turned out, only very few teams actually played.

#27 no0ri5 - 2012-02-11 15:56 (85.229.142.XXX)

I don't buy the "I-play-only-for-fun"-argument.
If you only care about having fun, and absolutely nothing else, then just stay out of EQL? There are pracs, mixes, ffa and whatnot for that.

#28 no0ri5 - 2012-02-11 16:01 (85.229.142.XXX)

Also, "having fun" can for some people be to constantly try to improve (which includes getting raped sometimes) while for others it is to constantly play teams they have a slight advantage over. It is different for everyone.

#29 Kalma - 2012-02-11 18:57 (88.112.76.XXX)

@21 I don't see any div3 player complaining here actually. But fingers crossed for over 100 posts. :)

@25 I am disappoint.

#30 maniac - 2012-02-12 11:25 (178.164.172.XXX)

@29: because they've already left.

#31 JohnNy_cz - 2012-02-12 12:50 (84.42.159.XXX)

I've also noticed some div3 players don't really get this news post, as it mentions two variants and doesn't say that the second one is the actual preferred one (well it somehow does, at the very end, but ...). Also it is more likely div3 players don't spend so much time in QW, which also means they don't visit the websites so often and follow the discussions so much. Not going to judge here whether it's their own fault or that admins should somehow count with it.

#28: Part of "the fun" is that you have some "record" of the fun, as in numbers, screenshots, statistics. In other modern games you get awards, your stats are recorded, compared to other people, and so on. Yes we have stats.qw.nu and you can make screenshots of your matches, etc., still probably the official statistics on the EQL web may make the "fun" less of a virtual stuff and make it more real.

#32 mipa - 2012-02-13 11:22 (91.154.101.XXX)

"'Hooraytio: Are we all really that afraid of getting raped/waste 40 minutes?"

Why would you use a term like being afraid? The difference between skill levels is huge, and like you said, it's just a waste of time to play against much better teams. Bad teams won't gain anything from several rape games, as it requires quite a lot of commitment and game time to actually achieve any notable advancement in skill. Sure there are teams who enjoy getting their asses kicked just for shits and giggles, but there are also teams who find that quite demoralizing. If a couple of teams lose their motivation to play due to forced rapes, I find this system to be a failure.

"no0ri5: It [having fun] is different for everyone."

Indeed it is. Why you decided not to buy the "just-for-fun" argument, while realizing everyone has a different definition for that, is a mystery. For me a competetive game where the scores actually matter are always more interesting than random pracs, unless of course the score is already known before the game starts. It's just not that interesting if, rather than winning, you put milestones like try to get 40 frags or try not to get minus frags.

Hopefully the playoff stage will work out well and actually bring some intense games like planned.

#33 Darkki - 2012-02-13 15:34 (88.112.226.XXX)

If it's about having fun, why do you need league for? As far as I know, leagues are for..competition. And yeah, it's fear, or pride, or what the hell ego thing you have going on there, no matter how pretty words you put around it. I mean, let the scene die before you "waste" 40 minutes of your life? I've seen this "waste of time" argument over and over again. This is the attitude of a person that picks the winning side or not play at all.
400-0 isn't fun for anyone, but trying to evolve is. "I'm not trying to evolve". Well why sign up? You know your standing allready so no point of repeating last season, now is there?

I'm not signing up anymore with the same division system than last seasons. Just my 2 cents.

#34 ParadokS - 2012-02-13 15:59 (77.105.214.XXX)

Well div1 is officially dead, the way we are used to. the 1 or 2 teams still holding on will have uber boring season.

Only option is to split up to more, lower skilled teams.

But I would really like to see the draft tourney started... that is something that could keep div1 players occupied and having fun... keep them in the scene untill we get some kind of updrift.

And another 4on4 tournament format than EQL for sure. Don't neccessarily need to get rid of EQL, but a nother type of tournament for diversity would be nice.

We do see some activity on the 1on1 scene atm thanks to dirtbox and possibly phil/vvd is coming with something as well.

The scene is in a stalemate now more than ever and could seriously need a reboot or a kickstart of sort - will it come? who knows.
I guess EQL admins just doing what to they do best... try and start another EQL season, and I commend them for that - as well as dirtbox and others to get 1on1 scene going... but it's just not enough, lets see if something more is coming.

#35 Kalma - 2012-02-13 16:31 (88.112.76.XXX)

Yes, the only way such a small 4on4 clan scene can survive is to spread the talent. A bit like a draft league.

This new system will reduce the skillgap as the bottom clans either recruit better players or disband. One downside of the old system was that it created stagnation when clans recruited according to their division.

#36 JohnNy_cz - 2012-02-13 16:34 (84.42.159.XXX)

Yeah let's hope for that. By checking the div3 group of last EQL it seems that some of the top clans there won't have much problems playing div2 clans anyway, as some of them already do so. And then the rest of the clans aren't much worse so they probably also won't suffer that much. It is sad to see there were so few "really" div3 clans :/

Perhaps it is too much to ask EQL to serve two goals - make existing players happy and also support newcomers. Maybe some other tournament could jump in for the second goal and do it properly?

#37 ParadokS - 2012-02-13 17:51 (77.105.214.XXX)

It's sad there are not anymore REAL div3 clans? Seriously?

It's sad that there are not more DIV1 teams... who cares about div3. We want more SKILL, not more donkeys without prospects.

div3 teams moving into div2 and catching up to rest of scene... thumbs up!!

Players begging for for more total crap teams... thumbs down.

#38 Ser - 2012-02-13 18:00 (178.250.103.XXX)

too many lols not enough time.

#39 JohnNy_cz - 2012-02-13 18:38 (84.42.159.XXX)

heh, nice attitude over there para

#40 Darkki - 2012-02-13 19:13 (88.112.226.XXX)

#39

Well he kind of has a point there. Div1 quality is rock bottom, and game this old really needs quality games and skill to even theoritically lure more people in. Last season div1 skill level even in finals was a joke.

#41 cara - 2012-02-13 19:50 (217.209.214.XXX)

LOL my image code was HTQIU!!

#42 mipa - 2012-02-13 19:56 (91.154.101.XXX)

"If it's about having fun, why do you need league for?"

In short, it is more fun to play "official" games. I don't think I need to inform you about the differences between a non-meaningful prac and an official game in a tournament. But to be clear, I don't really like playing mixes or pracs.

"As far as I know, leagues are for..competition."

Yes, indeed they are. Still every competetive sport has different leagues for teams with difference between skills. When you're speaking about a game which is played by amateurs and purely for fun, it's not a good thing to mix the best teams with the shittiest teams unless the shittiest team actually request it. The humiliation from being forced to face someone a lot better does not benefit anyone.

"And yeah, it's fear, or pride, or what the hell ego thing you have going on there, no matter how pretty words you put around it. "

No it is not. It can be just rational thinking. I, for example, have been playing qwdm for ~10 years with varying activity. I'm still mediocre at best, and I find it rather silly that I have to face teams that are a lot better than the one I am in. I am entering a competition yes, but in previous seasons there has been the possibility to compete with teams who are about the same skill level as you are.

#43 ParadokS - 2012-02-13 20:16 (77.105.214.XXX)

" I am entering a competition yes, but in previous seasons there has been the possibility to compete with teams who are about the same skill level as you are."

Not if you ask bottom 2 teams from div1 from every season almost.
Hence why most of them always go idle before they get started.

And it's usually about where to draw the line between div2 and div1. From like top 20 teams in scene, 18 of them wants to be in div2, but that's not practical. So it's usually a war between clans that whine themselves to div2, and admins trying to keep div1 alive by actually having teams there to play. So the smaller you make div1, the bigger chance that everyone outside top 3 will idle through the season.

I don't know the solution tbh. It feels stupid to force top teams to dismantle and spread out to have a working scene, but it doesn't seem like there is enough talent or teams to make a competitive high quality scene. But I do think the draft tourney was only fun alternative I heard so far for all div2/1 players.

It gives option to all div0/1 to play side by side with div2 players.. Noone's pride can get hurt, cause you can always blame the donkeys on your team =P Clean slade for all but still competetive and I would believe lot of div2 low div1 players might become better fast.

But just grasping straws cause current 4on4 state seems unbearable.

#44 moje - 2012-02-13 20:30 (83.146.234.XXX)

This new two-division system will not bring more than a lot of wo´s to fom sr and sd. Does that help top teams activity in anyway? or do we get more high level games? no we don´t, only what we get is more players will quit from div2 teams..

#45 andy - 2012-02-13 21:03 (84.60.141.XXX)

Ask yourself why more teams/players want to be in div2 instead of div1. And then, when you find the cause, solve it. Make players/teams WANT to be in div1 and win the competition.

If you can fix/achieve this, QW will be great again.

#46 Rikoll - 2012-02-13 21:21 (80.203.43.XXX)

#42: "I am entering a competition yes, but in previous seasons there has been the possibility to compete with teams who are about the same skill level as you are."

This will also be the case this season. Fucking ridiculus amount of whine. Just sign up and play. "I'm not signing up because blablabla", "I just wanna play for fun blablabla". Stop being such primadonnas, and just fucking play the game.

#47 ParadokS - 2012-02-13 22:53 (77.105.214.XXX)

yeah the reason they wanna be in div2 cause they think they have good chance to beat everyone there.

#48 jOn - 2012-02-14 00:29 (83.249.249.XXX)

Everyone wants fair games, everyone wants to have fun, everyone wants pent.

GL Admins!

#49 mipa - 2012-02-14 10:47 (91.154.101.XXX)

"This will also be the case this season."

How? You have to play against teams that are clearly better and clearly worse to get a somewhat equal playoff stage. You already know your place in the hierarchy of skill so why do you need to be reminded of it by being forced to play top div0 clans or the shittiest div6 clans? The admin crew may not know every teams skill level before the tournament starts, but this is a retarded way to prove it. Is there even a way to make sure teams don't lose on purpose to get an easier playoff stage?

"Make players/teams WANT to be in div1 and win the competition."

Even if you did find the cause, I think this is simply impossible. It's like forcing someone to enjoy coffee instead of tea (without torture).

#50 Rikoll - 2012-02-14 11:13 (212.71.87.XXX)

#49: "This will also be the case this season." was a response to "#42: "I am entering a competition yes, but in previous seasons there has been the possibility to compete with teams who are about the same skill level as you are."

Why on earth would you try to twist that into something more benefiting your whine? Yes, of course you will face teams that you will lose big and win big against as well if you're in a middle tiered team. I was simply saying that yes, of course you will compete with teams that are about the same skill level as you this season only.

Whiners gonna whine I guess.

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