it was gg

gl in the final tvs and gl in the bronze game f!

Unfair pings on dm2. Rematch imo.

Impressive work by tVS, fusion has played very impressive in the pracs vs slackers, and their skill individually during 2v2s / 1on1s (rikoll). Meanwhile tVS hasn't got that many pracs.. (just mix teams) I think xant is a really good asset that completes tVS teamplay. I didn't think the dm3 would be ~100 frags diffrence. Maybe 50+ for Fusion.. Thougt maybe F would take dm3 down and maybe dm2 with a good start. Then loose cmt1b e1m2 and cmt4. 3-2 tVS. Very well and impressive play by tvs. ggs

Alright so that was that. If people are wondering what the hell was that about pings: it was just a little payback for all the lame shit we've been taking from these guys over the years. Everybody knows the pings were of course just fine.

About the actual game: somehow they managed to get a 2 rl start again in dm2 which made it a thriller, but this time we managed to turn it into a victory. Other maps were pretty much smooth sailing. Our teamplay was again working as it used to back in the days. Hopefully we can keep that flow in the final too.

ggs.

#4,

"Alright so that was that. If people are wondering what the hell was that about pings: it was just a little payback for all the lame shit we've been taking from these guys over the years. Everybody knows the pings were of course just fine.
"

lol, what the fuck are you talking about blaze? :D

that was perhaps the worst excuse i've ever heard regarding your 30 min delay of the game because of one guy having lower ping than the rest of your players. (where as the average was completely fair).

whatever lame stuff your talking about I have no idea, so please enlighten us, not sure how the pingwhine was any payback though, we just rolled with the drama, not like we seriously cared, if you look at our games we play most games with ping disadvantage, however making you guys look bad was well worth the wait!

ggs, very exciting to watch!

Yep, praccing everyday and losing 3-0 made us look bad ;)

ggs.

tVS will never win a popularity contest, that's for sure. Never seen a team behave more idiotic in my QW career. I will do my best to avoid playing any more games vs them. Individually: nice behaving players. tVS as a team: dicks.

Well deserved victory anyway. I hope SR crush you in the final :-)

Well Rikoll, that's a bit empty threat since that's what you guys have been doing all along. If I got a penny for every time you "didn't have 4" and were playing another team 5 minutes later, I'd be a rich man. :)

All that bs for nothing, when we could have been playing qw instead...

blaze: "it was just a little payback for all the lame shit we've been taking from these guys over the years. Everybody knows the pings were of course just fine."

childish bullshit, gg

I dunno whats more pathetic...the acting on the server or the lame excuses now.

lol, the quiet finnish nerds got good in quake and got cocky, haha

I wish somebody made VoIDs od the games with all the bullhsit drama included!!

Hahah couldnt wait and keep myself out of this :D

Lame, childish and everything but after this conspiracy and boycotting it was the least to do. Can't wait to see what happens in final :D

Martin: You dont need to act like you dont know since this is well-known issue.

Rikoll: Do you really think tVS will continue playing next season when we can just play official games, like it has been some years now. (Btw I think you personally have always wanted to play vs us.)

Everyone like slash could just shut up cause they dont have a clue about this. I think we (tVS) are best to say how things are or atleast how we feel to be treated.

-I hope SR crush Fusion in the bronze game :-)

#14, I can't remember denying tvs any prac this season, if were not talking this particular week where we played you in the semifinal.

Looking at the overall maps I've played vs tvs they were 33 maps last season and 29 this season, a season where we played anyone and as much as we could.

Not sure if it was worth it for you guys to completely make a fool out of yourself in the process to state some kind of example that we prac you too little, well I guess that failed in the long run, but good luck in the finals none the less.

For the record, that's 3 times the pracs I've done vs tks this season, 25 more maps than I done vs SD this season, 28 more maps than I've done vs DC this season, 23 more maps than I've done vs sauna this season and finally, 27 more maps than vs the russians aaaaand 27 more maps than I've done vs quakeklan this season. Wow, WE really prac you guys too little! Only clan I played more was vs SR.

And I thought it was only a game, but for some it seems as if their life depends on it :(

drama.

A lot of unneccesary drama really.

Grow up everyone.

ddk, childish bullshit exactly. We just wanted to be in the giving end for once.

Martin, your silly map counts don't mean anything when we all know how it is. You must think the people in the scene are really naive. :P

Our sin was that we wanted to play Quake with you guys. Well congratz, no more.

Ok, just to give people some sort of perspective to what this is all about,

First of all, tvs should learn some manners and act proper and they would get more pracs I bet.

I guess fakenicking as me on the servers (Diki), crying in the comments and talking shit about me whenever im not around (blAze) certainly wont get you any pracs from us, well I guess you should learn some public relations from Para and SR for the upcoming season, atleast they know how to behave, even in defeat.

#20: Your "sin" is that you delibrately wasted 30 minutes of many peoples time, just for your own amusement.

I've always wanted to play vs tVS when given the chance, and I don't feel we've been avoiding you at all this season, as qwstats kinda proves.

Diki: if this is how tVS express themselves, and you guys actually belive this is some kind of conspiracy against you, I'd say it's a high probability you're more paranoid than most people, and it's also quite probable that most people won't even miss you guys the slightest if you decide to pack your bags. With that said, I think you, milton and maga are excellent examples of good sports, it's just that the rest of the bunch outweights it quite alot. Such a shame.

Enough of drama for me. Just wanted to point out what's so good about milton.

Check his bore for Ihminen with 2 minutes left on dm3. As a reward for boring to a teammate he was awarded rl spawn, and of course the rl was lying there waiting for him, and no enemies were present :E

#21 Oh it's about our manners now. Well, at leat you admit it then.

When have I ever talked shit about you?

#22 qwstats proves only that you'd play us if there was no one else and you needed to prac. So many times when asking prac from you we got the silent treatment or some lame excuses just to find you praccing with SR or someone else a moment after.

GG for changing the rules in the middle of a semi-final.

The boycott isn't something we have made up, _trust me_, and it's the reason why I won't be playing next season.

Instead of crying out loud, isn't it better to prepare and kick some opponent's asses in the next EQL? You're gonna prove smth that way - and definitely not by sulking around.
TVS's disbanding/idling would a significant loss for QW.

Far and away the best moment in these games was Rikoll getting telefragged at sng spawn on dm3 :)

Regarding pings and "changing the rules", the problem is that if you try to apply such ambiguous/incomplete rules, game theory dictates that you end up with a suboptimal situation. tVS claims that F should have all their players ping up to the lowest ping of tVS. However, since F had more players with 39ms than tVS, the most logical response to that would be for them to bump their two guys up to 39ms as well (thus forcing tVS to put all three of their 26ers up to 39ms as well). There is no rule stating that players have to take optimum route to the server so if Xantom is so keen on following rules, F would have been 'justified' in re-routing all players to 39ms and making tVS doing the same. End result would be suboptimal because then instead of 26+26+39+39 on each team we'd have everyone on 39.

#26 It's very hard to keep oneself interested in the game when there is so little left to play. Just playing the officials simply doesn't cut it for us. We're not interested in playing some rusty, half-assed teamplay once in a month. That's more frustrating than it is entertaining.

#27 Well I suppose the ping rules are very badly formulated. I have presumed that the spirit of the ping rule (if not the letter) is that everyone enters the server with the best possible ping and then the ping rule is applied once (i.e. it's not recursive). I guess it needs clarification.

"I've always wanted to play vs tVS when given the chance, and I don't feel we've been avoiding you at all this season, as qwstats kinda proves."

Yeah, lets start counting how many times u have said in private that you individually would like to prac vs us but dont understand why your teammates behave like they do... So individually you are nice guys but as a team dicks. We really have had to beg for the pracs vs you.
Like asking prac vs u... skillah asking money for the prac if it was vs tvs... then praccing vs someone else 5mins later =)

To further clarify the ping issue: if you apply the rule recursively, eventually everyone will just ping up the highest pinging player. Since that could be written as a rule in much simpler form, I think that was not the intent of the writer of the rule.

Haha, the prac stuff never gets old.
Players like Skillah etc always told me "you need to prac vs better teams to get better". I guess its not the same when you are on the receiving end of the rape stick?

(and F doesnt even get raped by tvs but i guess it doesnt matter?)

Well uh, I started watching since 16:05 or so, saw some ping whine, looked at the pings in the scoreboard and told myself, hm so they are just going to ping up like 3 players to get 26 26 38 38 in both teams and then they will play np.
Yeah, except it took 30 minutes until this was the case.

#32 Hooraytio

I think it is true that you can only become better when u play vs topteams or try to keep your level as good as it is... And i would have liked that more than anything to just play vs sr and f more. Rikoll has been saying that also, and like i said we have talked with him in private he saying HE really would like to play vs us since it woud be the best prac there is but....
He can hate us now if he likes but at least he knows it is the truth his teammates has refused to play vs tvs so many times for some reason.
Everyone thinks suddendeath is idle and NEVER plays... still the stats say tvs has been praccing about the same amount of maps than sd. This just doesnt feel interesting when u cant get the pracs and u know you just lose your touch and become worse.
Sr has become superhot this season coz they have pracced so much. And it has been nice that they have improved so much.

"Hahhah, well, personally I don't give a flying fuck about "sportmanship" or what anyone thinks, I only care about winning. So spare your moral lectures to someone who cares. :)"
(Blaze replies to Angua after having been accused of having an unsportsmanlike behaviour in EQL2)

Once again the very true nature of this team became very clear for everyone yesterday. The behavior is just pathetic, and has on several occasions always been throughout the years. A lot of times you've asked yourself "Is this guy really serious or just making a play?", when member X of them make some idiotic comment or try giving 'orders'. Well, now we know the definite answer.

I was also going to adress the ping issue. However, as blaze already admitted in his first post, their drama whine and delay was just something they "wanted to do" without any grounds:
"(..) it was just a little payback for all the lame shit we've been taking from these guys over the years (..)"
What? I'm just as clueless as everyone else here. We (and others) have pracced vs you guys alot this seasons, so I really don't get the "no one ever wants to prac us" thing. The only exception was on Friday, since we were gonna play the very next day.

It's also a bit ironic, that you wonder why teams in general rather plays somebody else, when you constantly have this attitude and behaves as witnessed. Go figure.

Sure, keep playing dumb about it, I'm not sure if anyone is buying it though.

Everyone knows that we're looking for prac more actively than anyone in the scene. Yet according to the stats, in the past year SR and F have THREE HUNDRED more maps played. That's twice our pracs, and a map for almost every day of the year.

I treat people with respect until they prove with their behavior that they deserve otherwise. I guess you and Angua succeeded it that.

I have never had any problems with tVS and must say they are one of the best behaving team I've faced in the last years.

We all know how div1 teams reason: they don't want to prac tVS because tVS are so good. This hasn't mattered _to much_ to tVS before since they managed to keep their level. But now it seems like other teams are really lowering that gap, and tVS still can't get pracs.

Pretending like this ain't the case is just plain bull. Then I know there are individuals in a team who doesn't mind praccing them, but we all know we need 4 dudes of the same opinion to play.

So bottom line is I totally understand how they're feeling, but perhaps frustration has escalated a bit.

Nitram: Yep, I admit fakeing as valla once (like 3 months ago in a mix) but since your nick is nitram it shouldnt concern you ;) As I said I did it just once and changed nick after saw you didnt like it.

Hehe well long story short I saw you and some other F dude fakeing in a mix so I thought to join the party. And since you (and some others) are basicly changing nick every season or mix I wanted to give a short lesson. Seems like it worked and I have seen you guys playing with same nicks some months now :)

But apology if I was too hard for you.

Rikoll: I know conspiracy is a little bit too hard word but just tried to make it clear or something :) I think I have packed my backpack some years ago but jumped in to help my friends cause Xantom didnt have time to play and I had some. Playing in top form and top clans takes just so much time. As we all know.


Maybe we are dicks or maybe there is a reason we are dicks for some people. Usually you need two sides. But who knows :)

#31 that's exactly the point I'm making - Xantom is demanding that tVS has ping advantage "because it's the rules" yet that if we apply game theory that lack of flexibility has only one outcome - everyone pings up to the ping of highest pinging player (assuming 51ms or less as there is a rule about that limit). So we end up with a HPB game simply because one clan was trying to exploit the rules to give themselves an advantage whereas if a compromise was reached some players would have lower pings. Surely the intention of whoever wrote the rule wasn't to give one team ping advantage either in terms of punishing the other clan just because they have say one guy with low ping on a chosen server.

I think in general the server selection rules need a bit of rework as it often isn't even clear what server should be chosen. When we tried to play vs Sauna first time out they wanted to play in Denmark with 26+26+26+30 vs 26+39+39+51 or something like that (26ers refusing to ping up because we had one guy on 26). Yet by that logic we could have demanded to play in Germany with 39+39+39+51 (us) vs 39+51+51+51. Clearly in my mind the optimal solution was something like staying in Denmark (where average pings for the highest pinging team were lowest) but then have the lower pinging team ping up a bit.

"Everyone knows that we're looking for prac more actively than anyone in the scene. Yet according to the stats, in the past year SR and F have THREE HUNDRED more maps played. That's twice our pracs, and a map for almost every day of the year."

Well half of SR games are with standins, often 2. We play with many different lineups just to be able to play more games with clans. Sure it can be frustrating sometimes cause you can't rape as you think and hope you could have with best possible lineup.

But at least you get to play with your clanmates and get more games. tVS think that other teams boycut them. I think we would also get boycutted if we use our best team 100% of the time. We might get fewer pracs, but we would never play with different lineup, and we would still get better. We had your "problem" in SR before when noone wanted to prac us, cause we were simply too good. We tried to do something and created SR2, with great results I might add. Both activity wise, and lifting the level of play for some players. It's very possible that this project will be revived after this season as well.

I guess such a move from tVS is unheard of. They are way too exclusive. Again, this drama has to be seen in the perspective that the scene is so small.

There are not 10 top teams that can prac a lot with each other. If you make bad relations with 1 team, you are pretty much fucked.

I agree with HT about ping issue, rules are vague on this subject and easily a target for a lame-action like we just saw yesterday. But there are just so many combinations of ping situations with 8 different players, that it's hard to make precise rules that gives a perfect balance between optimal playing conditions and fair play. I think at least for playoffs an admin should always be present and actively try and solve these issues fast and resolute.

#10 ddk
"childish bullshit, gg"

Maybe it is a bit difficult to see our point when u have get prac 732maps in the past year..
But try thinking it this way: i suppose tvs tried to get prac even more than you guys but instead of u getting prac all the time you would have allways get some laming from your opponents and u have ended up getting 413maps less prac than u did now... after that you would have had to listen your opponents making fun for the fact that they didnt play vs u and u ended up getting no prac a time after another.

Its obvious that also specs felt offended by tvs laming vs fusion. But then again its hard for specs to know how this gaming has been for tvs last couple of years and u just dont want to endlessly try to be a good sport vs teams that tries to diss u =)

ParadokS are you kidding me? Like 75% of our pracs this season was with standins. Darkki probably pracced with us more than Diki and XantoM put together. I think you can count our pracs with our top lineup with one hand fingers. Just a couple of days ago we played vs YOU with maga, a guy who has played maybe 10 4on4s in 10 years PLUS a standin. You guys would never, ever prac us without your A-lineup. But at least you are more straight about the fact that you are not interested in playing with us.

I also don't understand what the hell is your beef with our player choices. We took Milton out of some bottom div when it made absolutely no sense to anyone that he was playing there. Diki wanted to join us because he wanted to play seriously and AQ was just joking around. When he wanted to quit we needed a player. The best one available, with _no clan_ at that time was XantoM so we asked him. Maybe it would be better for the scene to steal promising players from upcoming clans or horde tens of members to sit on a bench for all the officials when the top 4 plays them all anyway. Well I don't want to do that. I told Diki back then that if we need to take a new member because he is no longer interested, he must understand that the new guy will take preference because I don't want to take people to sit on a bench.

We are not benching players that we take in? We have a lot of extra players that stopped playing, but didn't quit Slackers officially. I am pretty clear with all my members before every season, how I want the season to run. So I have no problem with that and I don't think my members does either. And you took in diki yes, but you also boycut him, or he didn't wanna play with tVS for some period, because of internal dispute. Maga hasn't been online for long time so basically you only HAVE 4 members, which have been dominating the scene for long time. So I can't see how your situation is similar to ours in any way really. And yes, maybe you had some standins in some of your games, but percentages can be interpeted freely. Since you played SOO much less games than us, having 75% with a standin isn't that impressive, we probably played twice as many games with standin, as you played whole year.. including official games. And I'm not saying you should play with standins, you just have a very tight group and not a broad lineup at all... It's optimal if you want to be the best. Play with same 4 active all the time, my dream too. But plz say hello to the real world.

I'm not saying how you should run your clan, how many members you should have etc. I'm just giving some reasons to why you don't get as much prac as some of the other teams on the scene. You seem to disagree on that point, saying it's conspiracy boycut. I think it's a number of reasons. Too few members in team, too much lame stuff like this unnecessary pingwhine and whine about prac. And perhaps not very good relations with the teams that would actually have a chance praccing you. But that said, you actually DID have many prac games this season. Often we can't get a prac against some teams unless we promise we have sub-par lineup. Which is no problem for me. Also why we are looking even more forward restarting the SR2 project again.

Being the best team on the scene and also acting like twats makes it hard to get pracs. Who knew?

Frankly I don't get your point or what you're getting at. I don't want to take players into the team just to be cannon fodder in pracs if no one better happens to be around. What you call exclusive I call fair. We have no 2nd grade citizens. If you come to tVS, expect to play all the way to the finals. And of course if we have to take a new guy to the team because someone lost his interest he must understand that we won't bench the new guy if he happens to find his interest again some time later. Of course he's still free to play when there's a spot open and especially this season the spot was open most of the time and filled with a standin...

And really, if we would try to get a prac with you using a standin, wouldn't you just tell us that you rather prac with a clan than a mix and go play vs Fusion instead? :)

lib:

As far as being the best, it didn't use to be like that. It's relatively new phenomenon. Back in the days we took every opportunity to prac vs the best like FF and LA.

And about being twats, well sometimes you get what you order. I don't think we have been twats towards anyone who didn't ask for it.

After a long discussion between EQL staff, both clans (tvs and f), Paradoks and dag we decided that the most fair way to settle these issues, once and for all is

BARE KNUCKLE FIGHT BETWEEN

HAGGE VS PEKTOPAH

It's going to happen, ofcourse, at Pektopahs backyard in Moldova. I just hope Hagge has enough balls to come here, and that swedes can raise enough money to buy him gasoline to drive here.
Anyway, Gaz and HangTime are going to do the commentary.

Btw, this will also prove that finns are way better in quake than swedes.

Great idea pektopah! But still not sure how it will be settled? :S I mean, if you win, will then tVS be right with their whine? Because if that's the case I feel sorry for tVS (and for you pektopah) Be

Para: I didnt want to play in last EQL semis cause of some whine in pracs. This was like the first time I have ever heard these guys whining :) I just dont want to play when its not fun cause Im not that serious with quake anymore. And second I dont have time to play enough to get that shape you need in div0 games. Maybe someone can be good with less gaming but I cant. :) So Im more than happy to let Xantom play.