Looks like a thriller. :f

SR feels even more dominant than tVS did the last 4-5 seasons somehow

Pff, we just raped SR before these games, too easy.

And to think that zero even played with a peg leg is amazing. Best wishes to you and your family.

cant wait to see the 'rape' on sunday fogi :E

Not even 500 ?

I compared SR and tVS from eql9 to eql12 and checked their average map scores.

eql9
tvs averaged 292-121 per map (32maps)
sr averaged 234-164 (28)

eql10
tvs 279-127 (15)
sr 197-182 (19

eql11
tvs 299-121 (31)
sr 234-164 (35)

eql12
tvs 286-131 (32)
sr 260-146 (36)

and now in eql13 slackers are scoring 337-110 per map on average (29 maps)

Sure they dont have to play vs tvs this season and tvs had to play vs sr in each of the previous seasons. But thats only 1 or 2 games depending on if they met in the playoffs. Slackers are really making the most of their dominance this season by racking up such impressive numbers.

maybe its time to start the discussion again about what do with this onesided dominance, as it was few season ago :)

i say lets cut em into two teams...oh thats already almost done. well make it four!

Their dm2 dominance is really impressive. Seems like they really steped up their dm2 performance. Would love to see a SR vs (active) tvs best of 7 match (dm2 only)

It feels like striker was the final part that completed the SR puzzle this season. Krab and En_Karl did well before but striker is just on another level.

Well, SR has definately stepped up their game another level. If tVS decided to come back they will definately have some serious competition.

When will we see cmf step their game up another notch and challenge SR? Just before the final? 8)

More important: when will Hagge start to rape div2, the job we recruited him for!?

It was pretty clear that when Striker gets in shape, SR will be unstoppable. Striker ftw!

I think this season has seen exceptionally high rate of games with rusty comeback players, low activity teams and handicapped lineups which might partially explain the easy dominance. I guess this trend is inevitable.

handicapped lineups? low activity? I don't agree, TKS is stronger, CCCP is stronger, and add a really strong CMF into the mix. SR2 is stabile as well and SD has been playing on pretty much same level as previous seasons. Perhaps F was weak in start of season.
But I don't think it's fair to say SR's frag margin is because of those things you mention.
But I still think tVS would win, perhaps even pretty easily, if they would make a comeback next season. If they wait longer with a comeback it might be harder though, if there even will be a comeback?

Well I can't really agree that TKs is stronger, especially with the amount of activity they've had. You have to remember that TKs was one of the most active clans in the whole scene for many seasons, this season they've been quite absent in prac terms and have had to play with many different lineups.

Also can't agree that tVS would win _easily_. Even without striker, SR managed to beat tVS many times during the last year (with or without xantom) and last season had kenya maps, where tVS is definitely the king, but not so clearly on tb3.

With en_karl back and ganon I think they are stronger than last season, with or without prac. They did take a map from cmf,f,cccp.
Bottom line is I don't think this season is weaker, at least not by such a difference that it would explain SR's dominance, I think it's more a fact that SR has become a little better.
Ok "easily" might have been to stretch it, but I think they would win at least. On tb3 also.

TKs was stronger before the season (before Fusion stole squeeze only to give him to cccp later on :D). With their best lineup (ganon, ddk, en_karl, ht) and some activity, they are definitely hotter, at least on paper, than before. But they are not active, especially with top lineup and many from the top lineup are not even playing much qw tdm on the side either.

Oh well, I think it's been a really nice season, mainly due to the double round in div1 and only one clan dying in the process.

Play a lot of Alien Swarm with your team and you get $HOT$ teamplay.

It's the competition at the top that is now missing. In previous seasons there were active top teams like KOFF, 3b, F, DRz, SR and tVS. Now Fusion played with weak lineups, SD and cMF don't prac, most of the ex 3b top players are inactive and tVS is not even in the league. Whether or not TKS have a stonger lineup this time is completely insignificant.

well since we are talking overall dominance and frag margin, every single clan will count? if there are alot of easy rape clans, the numbers will look good right?

KOFF? how far back are you talking about ? :)

cmf is still really strong without prac, and SD never praced when tvs dominated either so.. i dont know what you are talking about.. i still think the top is about the same in skill/activity etc, with the only difference that tvs is missing.

I think you have to take map pool into consideration too when just looking at average frag scores. For example last season SR had to cope with maps like CMT1b (meaning frag difference vs clans like TKS not so great) whereas on map pool this season, they have a much bigger margin of victory.

Although normally I would agree with blAze that the strength of clans like TKS isn't really relevant, as razor mentions it could influence frags.

I'd disagree with him however that we are stronger this season; last year we played over 700 maps 4on4 (average 2 maps per day) whereas this year we've played only 37 maps (excluding pov) since the 16th of Jan.... or around 0.5 maps per day.

Looking at performance, last season we averaged 171-176 frags, won 13 maps lost 13 maps. This season, 160-249 in frags, 3-20 in maps. Even if you take kenya out of the equation and just look at tb3 we had 6-6 in maps last season which is a lot better than 3-20.

Of course there was a bigger div last season so our stats got boosted against lesser teams.... in summation, I don't think you can make a good comparison just looking at stats between seasons with much different div sizes and map pools.

I would have to agree also that the season has been great, yet one cant dismiss the idea of tVS return, thou to me it seems kinda a shot in the dark. i cant see em returning without xantom.


(:)) there somewhere.

Well HT, you have to keep in mind that every other season is TB3...

I dont think you can make very serious conclusions but to me it is still interesting to look at those numbers. No matter what you say we havent seen this kind of domination recently.

Dominating teams are dominant. Extremly interesting discussion!

It could maybe even be an interesting discussion if people had thoughts about what in team x play that made them dominate more than team y. Instead people use stats that are useless in such a comparison due to the completely different team compositions for each season. Keep rockin'!

Well you can always check #10

"It feels like striker was the final part that completed the SR puzzle this season. Krab and En_Karl did well before but striker is just on another level."

Comparing stats between teams and seasons is not useless. No matter what has changed between the seasons the facts remain that Slackers has been able to win with margins we havent seen before in division 1. Also, there has actually been a discussion to why this has occured. The map pool has been suggested as a factor, other teams lineups and activity, absense of tvs.

I dont know why you must continue to be a total dick everytime, everywhere.

"Comparing stats between teams and seasons is not useless."

Keep rockin'!

That you've already concluded that SR is more dominant now than tVS ever was, just comfirms how simple your line of thought, as usual, actually is.

What i said was that no team has been this dominant, frag wise, during the season before. Changes in teams and lineups can and will be a factor but it does not take away the fact.

If this means that Slackers is better than tVS we dont know. They just rack up better stats.

Alot can happen between seasons but I still think it is interesting to compare from season to season. Both tVS and Slackers have had very good seasons throughout the years with 0 or a few maps lost. This season is a little different in the way Slackers has been able to outscore their opponents with such big margins.

Obviously something has changed and I think this can be attributed to striker being in good shape while para, mur & zero have conserved their good form from last season. Also slackers doesnt have any real top contenders as we are missing tvs, fusion was out of shape in the beginning and cmf got into shape late as well. Suddendeath could probably have won those e1m2s vs slackers but they just couldnt go all the way this time.

In previous seasons I was often amazed about how milton could score 100+ frags on average. It was because he could keep focused during the full 20min whereas other players get sloppy and perhaps dont give 100% when they noticed they already won after 5-15mins. This season it looks like slackers can keep that same focus even when they noticed they already won.

In the NHL Wayne Gretzky has the all time record for goals, assists and total points. He was perhaps the best player that ever played but when looking into his stats you will notice that he could score 2-3 goals when his team was already leading with 5-0. He continued to work hard even when the win was more or less secured and that always earned him those extra points. So instead of ending with around 160 points he went over 200 points during 3 seasons.

In conclusion: Slackers rack up impressive numbers this season. Reasons? Getting striker into shape, working the full 20 mins every map, lack of div0 competition, other teams lower activity.

If tVS were active this season they would probably rack up similar numbers as SR vs the other clans and we would see quite a battle in their 2 games. :)

"That you've already concluded that SR is more dominant now than tVS ever was, just comfirms how simple your line of thought, as usual, actually is."

That is just a misinterpretation from you.
I did not conclude that at all. I posted frag stats and that was the domination i was talking about. And according to the stats tvs never managed to rack up such numbers no matter how unthreatened their throne was.

Looks like someone is getting mad when their trolling isnt working...

You just wrote 30+ lines trying to explain yourself. If I was trolling, I'd say my trolling was highly successful. Belive it or not, often I just disagree with you and I think in general your views are stupid, and are not trolling.

Could you please pipe down and not be abusive?

Also, your latest post is just a repetition of what you said earlier and you dont trey to elaborate on why you think like you do. Why do you get so upset about someone finding stats interesting?

It is easy to think someones views are stupid when you dont have to explain why.

Will you guys just break the tension and fuck already?

"I dont know why you must continue to be a total dick everytime, everywhere."

Whos abusive again?

Your tone in general leaves alot to ask for. You are having difficulties posting comments here and on servers without adding some extra salt that makes you sound agressive and condescending.

But thanks for your input.

realsports analogies itt

Just giving an example to compare one of the best players of one game with one of the best players of another one.

To be fair Hooraytio, you did call him a dick before he got abusive to you...

#25 and #26 are just a few examples of the tone rikoll often use to try to be funny or condescending and thus act like a dick. This has been established in a number of comment fields before today.

The mentioning of those stats, no matter what conclusions you want to make or not, sparked some interesting comments and thats really all i was looking for.

Great stuff, keep it going! Would also be nice to see some Rikoll vs blAze comments now that they play in the same team 8)

#41
He was a little sarcastic and glib, sure, but you were the first to get actually abusive by calling him names, and then had the gall to call him out for being abusive, heh.

Well the Hagge vs Hooraytio comments has decreased to a minimum since you joined csn. I guess playing in the same clan takes away some of the fun in bashing eachother in the comment fields :)

#44 That wasnt based on those comments alone as you could probably figure out from the "everytime, everywhere" ending.

Still it was not very nice to call Rikoll a dick. I am sorry.

How could I possibly go on when risking Hooraytio to remove my posts as he see fit? I could try to be more tone down when around Hooray to not hurt his tender spirit, but I don't think he has given me any reason to not.

I think that you posted those numbers, took a potentially good discussion down to a boring, pointless and one-dimensional level. The numbers tell us nothing else than that SR are dominating this season and tVS dominated the previous seasons. If you think that's interesting numbers, fine, good for you. I'd bet you find loads of things interesting in life on a daily basis then. On the other hand, if you think those numbers can tell us that SR are MORE dominant than tVS, you are simply wrong; The numbers aren't from the same pool. So where is it at? From MY view, you are either a person that use numbers of no significance to create a debate, or simply stupid and ignorant. I'll do "a Hooraytio" and draw the hasted conclusion that you're both.

On a side note: Yes, you as an EQL admin should know much better than start being abusive towards players in your league that disagrees with you in some comments on a game, no matter your personal feeling towards that person. I'm also really dissapointed that my posts get cencored by you, but I guess that's the only way you can show "your power".

It is the numbers FOLLOWED by the discussion that became interesting. What caused the stats to be this way?

I never tried to say that slackers are more dominant than tvs ever was. I said that they managed to get a very good score on average this season. A score that a team in div1 didnt manage to get before and that this probably depends on a few different things that has changed from previous seasons. What is it with that that you dont understand?

You dont have to take part in that discussion if you dont want.

However, yet again you managed to be rude and condescending... There is really no need for that. Removing comments that only attack and flame isnt showing power. It is pretty sad that you should accuse me of trying to "show power" by removing comments that only flame someone.

You seem to get stuck on this part "On the other hand, if you think those numbers can tell us that SR are MORE dominant than tVS, you are simply wrong"

Thats not what Im thinking. Ive said it before but yet you managed to overlook that and continue to repeat it.

Just out of curiosity, do you think any stats, or conclusions drawn based on stats, are interesting Rikoll? And what would that be if so?

After a game we get quite a few numbers that could be used to calculate statistical probabilities. Like percentage of teams winning when they pick up more quads than the other team on a certain map. I guess when teams dont win even if they take more quads its most likely because they didnt have wpn/armor when taking it thus rendering the quad upperhand a bit useless.

When you said one-dimensional, could you perhaps give an example on how to make it more interesting? Or is it just not possible to do in your opinion? :)

No need to call me stupid and ignorant really.

Anyway, I guess if youre not interested than this might feel pointless.