> WP 20pts (more maps won)
> D&N 20pts
But we won WP - we have to be higher. :-(

Ehm, How does m44 get a WO over csn? They've played their game and m44 won 2-1.

With that it should be

BLT 26pts
KOFF 25pts
FU 23pts
WP 20pts
D&N 20pts
M44 18pts
CSN 17pts
OCLAN 16pts

In other words, WP and D&N move infront of M44.

Yeah rkd, it was some miscommunication. It will be corrected. :)

VVD: To separate teams with equally many points, MW, ML & +/- are used.

This means that the game between the clans doesnt matter in this case.

Next time well just skip playing the teams were bettet than, but might lose against as well. Ez 6 pts in wos instead of risking anything.

Planning on getting WO might end up in your opponent getting WO instead rikoll.

Well, obviously CCCP did close to none effort to play their games vs SD, so give them the proper -1 point penality / game, and I'll belive you.

Before I get accused of trolling or delibarately trying to offend people:

My only point is that your decisions, from a competetive view, encourages teams to delay their games. We played too many games at the early stages with a weakened and inactive lineup. If we had been "smart", we would simply delay everything as much as possible and wait to play any games until kingpin fixed his computer problems and blaze was back on vacation. We thought activity actually mattered and played games still. As it appears to me now, is that activity and activity points means jack shit.

I think we deserve that 3rd place over SD. But hopefully SD's two WOs vs CCCP was rightfully given out, but then I would also say CCCP deserves the deduction points for not trying to play or avoiding playing SD. With our activity last month I'm 99% sure we could trumph through WOs vs teams we lost against earlier in our weakened state.

Not that it matters for this seasons playoffs or anything. We would still need to beat both cmf & SR to win the whole thing, as 3rd or 4th. I'm simply worried about the signal it sends out to competetive minds (like mine ;)) for future seasons.

Well we really wanted to play those games rikoll.. it's not like we planned to get WO?

Yeah, don't take this the wrong way razor. Well, if you get slightly offended by me thinking we deserve the 3rd spot over you I can understand that ofc ;). It's nothing about what you or SD did. It's about our own decisions and the admins decisions. <3

#9 With the stuff we got gathered on the situation between those two clans this was the only thing to do. Deduction wasn't the right way either.

#2 & #4 Yes, misscommunication it seems like :D

We didnt "delay" the game on purpose, CCCP was one of the clans i looked forward to the most in playing. We played anyone who wanted to play with our 8-9 members.. we played SR the first game we played, with like zero practice in advance.. so why would we wanna delay CCCP? I tried schedule with them but they didnt knew when to play and I told them to tell me whenever they could play.
They claim that we at 1 point denied to play vs them early in the season, I don't know any details about that though..
I don't see any reason why we would.
Overall I think we deserve the WO's alot more then them and we shouldn't suffer when we had a fair chance of getting 3rd.

Imo you can't have 6 games left on the last sunday of the season like CCCP had, in that case
you gotta be prepared to play them all..
I was one of those who tried to push
for these extra days as well.. but CCCP told me they probably can't play for this entire week.

They didnt "avoid" us either so why giving them penalty? they just had activity problems with semi-active players throughout the season.. no need to give penalty for that

Since we dont use a strict schedule where team a play vs team b on date x and y and ONLY on date x and y all the WOs must come in the end. If we had this type och schedule we would se WOs right away when a team didnt show up on the decided date and time.

With the current schedule it would be a very rare case to see a wo handed out during the middle of the season due to some team failing to show up 3 times.

We always aim at getting all clans to play and we most often give 3-7 extra days each season to give the clans a chance to complete the games.

However, when some clans still have games left we must come to some conclusion. In som cased we have voided games too since no clan could prove they tried to get the game played.

In this case, if CCCP would benefit from getting those 2p, say passing another team with 1p more, we would definately remove the points. Now they should not get the points at all anyway but sometimes we dont bother, how bad this might look, to change stuff like this since it doesnt affect the final standings anyway.

Sure, SD now got 6 easy points but to their defense they tried to get the games played and in the end cccp couldnt complete all their games, thus leaving SD without a chance to even play about these points.

In the end tho Rikoll, I think that teams who are active and get their games played and prac alot benefit from this more than teams who get wo and miss a chance to play and earn routine.

The table might had looked different if sd-cccp had played but atleast it didnt affect who got into playoffs.

Also, I didnt think you were trolling now nor did you sound offensive.

nice... we lost 9 points... fuck that activity next season then :))))

#12: It still sounds weird to me that a situation can arise where one team tried so hard to get the games played that 2 WOs were given out like that, and the other team also did enough effort to not get deducted. But ok, I'm sure it's good reasons behind the decision then.

It still gives me the sense, from my competetive view, that we should never have played those early stage games since activity doesn't get awarded as supposed to. If we haden't, we would be third, and it feels like we are the ones ending up with the punishment from those WOs. But I guess our lesson is learned, and we will take that into concideration for any upcoming season.

#14: Thanks for clearing up abit, but as I said it's not this seasons standings that worries me, but rather the signal it sends out to competetive minds for future seasons.

#13: Well, that is also partly my point. I'm really unsure about your effort to try to get that game played before the last week, but I know nothing about so it's just speculations. Right now I'll take the admins words for it that it was the right decision, but take with me the lesson learned to never play a game that might be tight without your top lineup.

agree with Rikoll :)
we played all our games... found and made our opponents play... wasted our precious time :о)... some games against "inactive clans" were played in the middle/end of the regular season... and lost 9 points at the end of the season in one moment $)))) thats fuckin funny

and we ll get all our "activity points" without any activity :) by WOs'

#2
Removed the m44-csn wo and changed the playoff fixtures. m44 already won 2-1 vs csn during the season so that wo was wrong.

#15
Well it was good that you managed to play all those games. Unfortunately your opponents didnt care as much and therefore there games were removed. Either we remove their games or give remaining opponents wo, either way you end up with the same result since no other clan lost to psy or pew anyway. Psy did, however, win vs pew but that doesnt change things in the top.

#18
Other clans have tried hard to play vs pew and psy too. They just didnt respond or didnt want to play. Immortals quit playing early. How would it be fair if you and some other teams got to keep these points when other teams didnt even get the chance?

This has happened before so this should be no news that inactive clans get their games cancelled.

#17
I would strongly advise against playing tight games without top lineup :)

We, csn, also lost a few games because of this. However, we play when we have 4+ guys online and everyone get to play. Perhaps not always competetive but we have fun :P

Perfect logic was applied to finalize the playoff-tables. It benefits some teams and hurts others, but it would certainly be less fair for active teams to miss playoffs who never even had the chance to score their points. So all in all it's a necessary evil and the blame lies soley on the teams going inactive or refusing to play their games and not the admins running EQL.

So keep whining and posting without thought, the only thing you accomplish is annoying the people making this league and all the excitement it brings happen. It also makes you look stupid.

#18

I wouldnt call:
110222 vs pew
110224 vs immortals
110307 vs psy
near the end of the regular season either.

They stopped playing and others didnt get the chance.

#22:

Ofc it's a bad idea but we didn't know then that WOs are given out, what appears to me, that easily. Then we could just have taken the chill pill, not stress with the schedule at all, and just thrown out some evidence that we tried really hard to play any team we hadn't played the last week. Mind you, almost every other team but SD had played at least one game vs CCCP before the last week. So how good was their effort to play those games, really, and you admins are really sure it's worth 6 points just like that?

#23:

Nice to see you got the answer to what's perfect logic, just like that. You must be worth a fortune to any employer.

The problem with that is that the teams you would try to get WO vs could have bugged you for weeks about playing. If you had chilled and waited for right lineups or given other excuses they would have more grounds for a WO than you.

The cccp-sd case solution is based on good grounds, and as you said before you will have to take our word for it. I do, however, appreciate your input on this since it raises important questions.

Best scenario would ofc be a strict schedule to avoid stuff like this but i fear that, with this small community, it would lead to many WOs.

tbh I don't even care anymore, I allways hated WO's .. and im sick talking about it now :)

I don't mind playing SR in a potential semi final either.. SR is the clan to beat atm, and if you beat them it's alot funnier to beat them in a semi final and deny them the final :)

#27:

Yeah, I guess I'm done now. Well, I don't mind sharing my thoughts, so just a pleasure. Nice that you found them interesting (for once? ;D).

People like #23, unable to see other sides, claims to know the answer before any discussion takes place, and calling people stupid for having different thoughts than the majority and/or himself gets my troll blood boiling, tho.

I'll try to give it a rest ;)

GL in playoffs to every team then!

I think #23 was mostly aimed at Paranoid tho. Even so, it was kinda offensive.

I would like to say good luck to all clans as well, good luck!

So... activity during first two weeks is not an activity... and activiity during last two weeks is a REAL ACTIVITY... I see...
And activity during last two days/hours is a SUPER MEGA ACTIVITY!
We ll use these shaolin technics next season... :о)

#30: Yes, independant on who his comment was aimed at.

#31

What I was saying was that you played these clans early/mid and then they kinda stopped playing. Then some clans couldnt play them. It is also a fair guess that everyone of the top8 clans would beat them so that would leave you in the same seat. We cant just leave it as it was.

Activity is the same the whole season. Thats why 0% activity from these 3 clans after mid-season made it impossible for everyone to play versus them.

Use whatever tactic you want next season as long as it includes playing games.

it includes mostly showing activity last couple of days $)
playin games is not a part of these tectics :)

Sure "top clans" ll get their WOs in spite of everything :)
And this dramatic turning upside-down and inside-out the whole division one sunny mourning as a part of "involving new clans and players" strategy :)

You are rambling now.

Answer this: Do you think we should leave the games played. Not using any WO and not cancel the inactive clans games? If yes: do you think it is fair that some other clans didnt get the chance to play?

post #35 is just nonsense. There are no new clans or players in div2. Just clans with new names but old players.

Btw leaving the division as it is now would mean that D&N would play vs CSN. As happy as I would be about that its not gonna happen. It simply isnt fair to the clans who didnt get to play vs pew/psy/imm. Dunno how you cant understand that?

sick fuckers :E

I understand ur position...U re right... U follow the rules...
Im just bored at work and i dont like that "activity points" :) that sum clans get thru the whole season and then loose them and some clans get a pack of that "activity points" by admins desicion in a minute :)

Ok, thanks for the input.

about invovling that wuz an irony :)
such tricks at the end just push away players :)

What wuz and irony? Im being serious.

How hard could it be for them to play these games? Both are active teams that have managed to play pretty much all of their games except vs eachother, for one team to get 6 points for free in such an even matchup and at the same time pass another team in the table at this expense is simply put, ridiculous. They should either play the game or lose the points, anything else is pure bullshit. Teams struggle through a whole season to play their games and Fusion have had to do their part without keyplayers and at the same time another team can stall their games and get points for free?

I'm just sick of people whining without thought. If you want to air your opinions asleast back it up with proper suggestions on how it can be improved. The system hurts some people, but if the whole lot benefits from it and you can't think of a way to improve it, why bother posting? It will be perceived as mindless whine.

Yes, I am offensive. It's the easiest way to get through to people who have their mind set on pointing out all the injustices in the world but still don't have a clue how to solve them. And if you do have a clue, please share it. It might be good ideas worth discussing. Otherwise it will be, as I stated earlier, just mindless whine.

It's healthy to question authorities in all aspects of society. But if you can't think of a realistic way of doing it better so that it could bring an actual discussion, it's useless.

And yes Rikoll, I am indeed a dream for any employer.

Regardsless of this it is a shame some clans who are active and should benefit from it doesn't to it's fullest extent. But that's all it is, a shame.

And I'm sick of people whining at whiners. I'm sure theres people that's sick of people whining on people that whine at whiny people as well. If we all call eachother stupid or something else abusive or offensive, I'm sure a massive amount of good things will sprout out of this discussion.

So much for your perfect logical sense?

#42 valla: We didn't stall these games, the only thing they said was that they claim we refused to play them one time when we had a game scheduled vs them. I don't know the facts to this and none of the other in SD can remember this either, but must have been some misunderstanding, why would we try avoid CCCP?

We pretty much played anyone who wanted to play with any lineup that was available, we have 8 different members that has played a fair amount of maps.

The only one we denied was SR who wanted to play us the first week, but we ended up playing them anyway cause there was noone else available.

We have been here entire season, and I told CCCP like a month ago to let us know whenever they could play.

After that we haven't exactly been thinking more about that, we just played whoever was available, and mostly just kept track of how many games we had left in order to make it in time..
When the last week was here we had 3 games left.. this should be no problem we thought.. tks-game was scheduled for sunday.. but then we had those 2 vs CCCP, I asked them already wednesday I think when they could play.. But since they had 6 games left we suddenly was in competion with alot of other clans in order to play vs them... this is in my opinion mostly their fault that they couldn't get more games played earlier.. and we shouldn't suffer from that.

I did everything I could, i asked admins to get extra days etc..

I think everyone hate WO's but what should we have done?

Somehow it seems that it's always the same people arguing about same stupid shit every time.. Entertaining though. Keep it up! :D

Seriously though, some of the WO's are just essential for making it fair. Particularly in div2 there were some 3 or 4 super inactive clans. They managed to play a few games early in the season, and only some lucky top clans got the "free" wins of them. Obviously it's not fair for the rest of the top clans, who lose: A) activity points B) most likely 2p for winning.

Peace...

Twisting my words and jumping to conclusions? This has reached a too low level for me.

"Perfect logic was applied to finalize the playoff-tables."

Isn't this the same as a statement that think you know what perfect logic is? So you must think you possess some ability others don't, since other people seems to disagree with what you regard as "perfect logic".. And wtf is _perfect_ logic anyway?

"Yes, I am offensive. It's the easiest way to get through to people who have their mind set on pointing out all the injustices in the world but still don't have a clue how to solve them."

W T F should I need to twist your words for? You say straight out you're offensive towards people that whine.

"This has reached a too low level for me."

Fine. Go back to your high level of offensive words towards people you concider whiners. Which in many others opinion probably just are people with other views than you. If I call you a stupid whiner, are we on the same level then?

Go back and take another good look at your reflection in that pool, Narcissus.

Oh no, I will have to get back to my A game already for the quarterfinal against Scenic and his minions 8( How could you allow this to happen Hooraytio?? I told you before the season that I will only join CSN if you make sure we don't play KOFF until the final, epic fail :(

Its better to deal with the toughest opponents first!