Nice to see the game getting played :) Fom too strong though, SR is in deeeeeeeeeep problems!

Yeah f0m looks awfully strong.

Murdoc is refusing to play too afaik so thats not making it any better for SR.

Paradoks, zero, darkki, striker ftw? Not a bad lineup but compared to milton, lacsap, valla, xantom or rikoll the outcome seems crystal clear.

FoMs lineup is stronger than TVs's top lineup imo.

#3. I think so too, hard to know though.
But milton/xantom was probably the best 2 in tVS and grouped up with valla they feel hotter than tVS was.
What tvs had was alot of playing time together though, having same lineup for so many seasons might end up being more important.

Too bad we can't have them playing eachother.. but I would put my money on fom.

Milton, blaze, ihminen diki
vs
xantom, valla, pascal, rikoll

could have been interesting :)

#4: my money would go on fom also. Having Xantom, Milton and Valla is like an all star team line up as it is. A decent 4th makes it a solid team imo.

But this all star team could be the death of div1.

Serox: Seriously? You must see a very tiny part of the puzzle if you think that is the reason why div1 could possibly die.

ggs c88!

I wouldnt put all the blame onto the new FoM line up but I would say it played a part.

The competition had a clear winner and that removes peoples motivation I think.

#8
Lol, and how is that a major change to div1?
Haven't seen any too-scared-to-play-attitude in remaining clans.
Div1 this small --> inactivity. There's your main reason.

agree with serox, but i would say teams like sr/fom might kill div1.

moje: If every team that beat most of the others split up every time they won, you do realize that div1 as a concept totally loses its meaning? And also, teams like tVS wouldn't ever had exist. There wouldn't be a high level of QW TDM anymore, we could might as well just mix all day.

CLEARLY, good players grouping up in the same clan CANNOT be what could kill DIV1.

Lets agree to dissagree then Rikoll, I got no beef.

Mix? with captains might work better than having 1 or 2 div 0 teams.

I am not putting SR down btw, they are stil hot. But the new FoM team ust takes the piss:)

In the current climate, what it really needed to have such a strong line up?

I have said it before but you could split the new FoM line up and make 4 other teams imo.

#12, If it's needed? I don't know, did SR get much of a challenge last season? That was the sole reason for this team, to give them a challenge. What's the point making 4 new teams out of us? Then you would have SR completely without competition at the top, I dunno, maybe they like it that way?

well it is killing middle/low div1 teams/players.

19:35] but kapo or someone told me that u are quiting.
Theres one example what happened to low div1 team when they had to play those rape games. And because of those rape games most of middle/low div1 players went to div2 teams so they can get tight, fun games.

And that mix with captains league is prolly best thing to qw for a long time

Martin, SR could drop a few too maybe then and make some other teams.

Only an idea.

Or we could have a div 0 just for SR and FoM? ;)

Martin, SR could drop a few too maybe then and make some other teams.

Only an idea.

Or we could have a div 0 just for SR and FoM? ;)

We got beef. The moment you claim the team I'm part of is the reason for ruining the top level of QW TDM because we're too good, we got beef. When a statement like you delivered in #6 comes up, of course we got beef, chris.

You do realize fusion would never have continued in its current state? I was damn tired of the refusal to play the other good teams that some of its members had. You were also one of those members. Of course, as long as I was a part of Fusion I would always back up my teammates. But I'm not anymore, and I never be will again.

Players like you are what kills division 1. Players with great potential, but are too lazy to to try improve, or too afraid of losing or whatever the reason is.

If the deal is to break up every superior team that is made, and then blame them for ruining the highest level of QW TDM by actually playing damn good QW, then GL HF. Create your own artificial "div1" leagues, tournaments, whatever, with random captains / rpickup teams and go have a blast. :)

Are you on crack?

I said I dont put the whole blame on the new all star team but I think it played a part in it.

I dont think I am alone in this idea neither.

As for me not wanting to play tops teams? thats just nonsense. I traveled the world to play the best when you were playing quake with keyboard alone.

Your new team can have good games with SR and then rape everyone else.

We have all been in this game long enough and dont like wasting an hour getting raped.

Playing someone thinking you have a chance and then losing is cool. But when you know there is no way at all you will win, whats the point? there is something wrong and it makes it feel pointless and a waste of time.

#19: Nice. Exactly the losers attitude i described :)

Each to their own Rikoll. I am only saying you have removed hope for some other teams.

No need to get shity. What a shame.

Serox, no you are not alone with that idea.
Prolly only ones who dont like that idea are playin in sr,fom or sd. Rest of the scene prolly thinks that way.
and for rikoll, people are getting old, getting married, have kids, works etc so they dont wanna waste time for playing against teams like fom/sr.

True moje. I am 31 and when I sit down I want to enjoy it.

If there is a chance of winning thats all I need to sit down and get my groove on.

#22: Fine. Also sounds much more reasonable for why div1 is struggling, than blaming the good teams.

Expect to get shit back if you start throwing shit in the first place.

I am not 'blaming the good teams' at all :)

I think you missed my point.

"But this all star team could be the death of div1."
"I wouldnt put all the blame onto the new FoM line up but I would say it played a part."
"The competition had a clear winner and that removes peoples motivation I think."
"I am not putting SR down btw, they are stil hot. But the new FoM team ust takes the piss:)"

Guess you need to express yourself clearer then, if you by this don't blame the top teams. Clarify please?

I said I think it played a part in it.

Have you seen the state of div1 at the moment? Also look at how many players from previous div1 just didn’t bother this time.

BLT was pushed into div1 because it was so empty and c88/tks had better things to do with their time by the looks of it. If you guys have formed a team just to take on SR, cool! If I were SR I would be loving it :)

I just wish you could understand why other people may not want to get involved. Don’t forget Rikoll not everyone is as focused on improving/winning as you.

Blt decided, on their own, to play in div1. It was not forced upon them. I understand that there was some internal discussion in blt about this, tho.

Players from previous div1 didn't bother to play in this div1 year. C88 and tks were inactive. f0m are partly to blame for this. Without f0m, we would have seen more teams in div1, an active c88 & tks, and everyone in blt would be happy to play in div1....

Sorry mac, still sounds like a good chunk of bullshit. Problem with div1 is players that don't want to play there for whatever reason, not good teams that play there.

/facepalm

No wonder people can't keep up with the best teams when you consider what an INSANE amount of time there is behind the level of skill they have reached.

If SR/FOM split up then division 1 wouldn't die, it would simply get a more humane level of skill which corresponds better to what the game really is; a hobby. :)

Actually SR wanted to split up this season take 2 players from top4 lineup in each team and fill up with some others. But after f0m created this monster team Para didn't want to split up anymore.

And I think you all should have another look at the group game sr-f0m. we lost by 1 frag on e1m2 and in total we had 1 frag more..

"BLT was pushed into div1 because it was so empty and c88/tks had better things to do with their time by the looks of it. If you guys have formed a team just to take on SR, cool! If I were SR I would be loving it :)"

Blt was by no means pushed into div1. They were a div1 clan because they won div2 several times already. BUT, it was suppose to be 6+ teams from div2 that should move up. That would attract former/current inactive div1 players to those 6 "new" div1 teams and make the middle action a lot more evn and exciting.

But as it turned out, only blt stepped up and was left out in the cold by the rest of div1 field.

sex

Shame on all you div1 players in div2 (you know who you are)!

Hey, how about new system: every time clan wins, it has to break up. After this it's disqualified and the losing team is now actually the winner of the match. This way both teams will win, and no more tears (tm).
Season will be quite short tho, but hey, everyone would be winners. Atleast in special way.

Nice idea, Darkki!

We al AAlll winnahls

Sorry for saying BLT was pushed up, it was just a guess.

And if anyone is wondering, my PC is totally fucked at home and thats why you rarely see me. I got rid of qw when everything was still good in Fusion.

@murdi: SR and FoM are both hot dont get me wrong. I was not taking anything away from you.

There was a Klitschko heavyweight championship fight not too long ago. He took down his opponent in an early round (as usual) and the audience booed because it was disappointed at what it saw. Klitschko took the mike and excused for the poor performance of his opponent and that he wished for a more interesting fight. In other words, he said sorry for being too good.
He only did his job, as well as he could and what he worked for his whole life, but is getting punished, shown disrespect and even has to stand there and tell some mob why the entertainment value was so low on that day.

Something similar is happening here. Why are some people contiously talking about splitting up teams like SR or FOM? Those stupid boxing fans at least paid 450968590€ to see that lousy fight, but those who are rambling here about splitting up a team and "saving the game" haven't even done that. Please think about for one second what you actually suggest. People come together, decide to form a team, practise hard, improve and get some achievements. And the result should be that those shall be punished by splitting up and make the game "even" or "more interesting"?

Yes, some of us have other things to do, real lives, wives, kids and whatever. And the only justified measurement can be that the competition is reduced so it suits the majority? This sounds like a meeting of a workers' council where the 54 year old 300 pounds fat guy whines about his employer not paying for his 5th health resort this year.

Rikoll in eql12:

#22 Rikoll - 2010-12-05 11:45 (80.203.35.XXX)
I've always wanted to play vs tVS when given the chance,
and I don't feel we've been avoiding you at all this season,
as qwstats kinda proves.

...and Rikoll in eql 14:

#17 Rikoll - 2011-12-01 15:17 (212.71.87.XXX)
"You do realize fusion would never have continued in its current state?
I was damn tired of the refusal to play the other good teams that some of
its members had."

It is funny to see that most of the ones who complain about div1 either quit or joined div2.

Whats the problem? Cant win div1?
Newsflash: MOST OF US CANT! (unless we start to prac like hell and got some talent, yes this has been debated, check older discussions for talent/hard work threads)

Ive only won once and that was div4 in eql4. I should clearly not be forced to play in div2 all the time :(

It is funny to see how hoora allways miss out the point..

I dont, you all whine because its too boring to play vs the best teams and you argue that they should split up to make more teams who are even... Perhaps it would work for ½ a season or so until some guys went idle or 1-2 of the teams recruited someone good who made comeback. Then you have a couple of "too good" teams again and you quit and join div2.

actually we middle/low div1 dont even play against best teams because its too booring.

and thats why best teams are whining that they dont have enough pracs, games etc. but when people have limited time to play they dont wanna waste that time to play booring games. And if sr and fom wants more pracs etc. they have to split up or they have accept that they dont get much pracs etc. At this moment i dont see any player/team who even try to step up and give a tight game against top teams.

Hooraytio, do you think anyone who is not on this div0 list would like to play and be raped every fucking game?

That's why lots of div1 jumped into div2. The games are more fun, it's hard to predict the results.

And please, don't tell that they are bad loosers, that they whine because they can't win div1 and bla bla bla. Most of people just want to have fun and tidy games. Is simple as that.

Of course there are exceptions, but it's very simple: you get this exceptions and put all of them to play in div1. I believe one season would be enough for them to wanted get back to div2 and play nice and tidy games.

I just dont see how it can be fun and tidy for the div2 clans that didnt get many, or even one, good player from div1, like dc2 etc, to play when clans like sd2 and oclan rape the shit out of them just like fom/sr would rape the shit out of oclan/sd2 and other div2 topteams. :)

Or did you totally miss that the weaker div2 teams got totally raped and/or didnt play at all. Just like it usually is in div1.

The main difference is that very few players who would fit in div2 started to join div3 like butthurt pussies just because of all the div1 crybabies invading their division.

For example, compare the fragstats toplists for div2 and div3. On the div2 the top17 players (amongst a few others) would do fit well into div1 if teamed together. Could be around 4+ teams with a few more. How many rape games would they face? 2-3? and then around 6 even games. c88. tks, blt + 3 more games vs the other teams formed out of these players. How can that be boring.

On the other hand it is obviously great fun to win big vs other clans, its just the getting raped part that is boring. Most of the top clans in div2 played alot of uneven maps vs the lesser teams. How is that fun and tidy, as you describe it? :)

You are not consistent in your arguments because on one hand it sucks to be raped and/or play when you know who will win. In how many cases did you doubt that oclan, sd2 etc would win this season?

When checking out the players in div3 there are max 5 who would be able to compete in div2 so that means that the div2 players arent even close to being on the same end of the pussy scale as former div1 players, no matter what excuse they might have for not playing in div1.

Suddendeath2s games:
Games Won 2-0 10
Games Won 2-1 1 (vs oclan)

Sd2 would have been raped by sr/fom/sd but it doesnt take away the fact that their season in div2 wasnt very interesting if you base that on the "close and tidy games" argument :)

Sure, some clan must be the best one but that doesnt mean that they should just sail through the season in the middle division.

"Hooraytio, do you think anyone who is not on this div0 list would like to play and be raped every fucking game?"

How can you be raped every game if there would be like 9-10 clans and only 2-3 of them are considered div0 clans?

gnd, do you think anyone who is not on this div1 list would like to play and be raped every fucking game?

What you are saying applies more to div2 this season since thats exactly what happened to machinery, dc2 and partly ablz.

So instead of having 10 teams in div1, where 7 of them _might_ face 3 rapes each we had 11, active atleast, clans in div2 where three of them faced atleast 6 rapes each.

In what dimension is that better? :)

Just saying, when using all of your arguments it does not only apply to div1.

yes sd2 was really good in regular season, but if u watch scores for example sd2-ssc or tossers-sd2 it was still quite tight but sd2 won both 2-0 and ssc/tossers were 6th and 8th in div2. But if u watch fom-c88 score where c88 is middle of div1 and it was A HUGE ASS RAPE! So in div1 the gap betveen top/middle or even low teams is much higher than in div2.
in div2 even the team that finished 8th in regular season can put up quite good fight against top team. so its not even close to the same thing than in div1.

Are you surprised that _THE_ best team of qw atm raped a middle div1 team?

There were some close games here and there even for sd2/oclan but there is still no question that sd2 or oclan will win div2 just as fom most likely will win div1. So again, the argument "we already know who will win" also applies to div2 and the lower div2 clans should quit or try to join div3 just like you and 25+ others did when you realized you couldnt win div1.

Again, I am merely pointing out that all your arguments for sr/fom splitting up, for leaving/disbanding your div1 clans and joining div2 and whining about rape games in general are just as valid for this seasons division 2.

We (csn) still had a great fun season so thats not the problem.

Also, if these div2 clans would be kept intact, with their good and less good players, I wouldnt mind to put like top8 in div1 and go from there. We had really good games all thru the season and having to play vs sr/fom/sd/c88/tks wouldnt have ruined any of the fun imo.

The problem, for csn,ssc,imm etc, would be if the better players formed div1 teams yet again. Like if quakeklan, cccp etc would come back, then there wouldnt be as many even games again :P