omg div1 will have 3 teams left...

Yeah, was a great season. Lots of fun and close games as expected!!

Well wasn't this expected? Div1 has been inactive many years and thats a one long term reason tVS didn't want to continue. And what happens when group of inactive players gathers together in a new clan? More inactive clans. So we have to just wait that you two/three will retire and we have a equal/acitve div1 again! Btw. I finally got a new appartment and connection so I can play vs you once in a month with FU!

Well seriously this is sad but I think EQL pro style scheduled games every sunday/monday will help to fix this. And the game should start when it should, I mean delays will kill the game too. Still there is a huge skill difference between clans so we should try some mix/captain league. Atleast something new cause now you really know who will win the game and EQL and that is not intresting = more inactivity...

I think activity is down even further than normal this season. Several times we have had a team together ready to play on a Sunday night and nobody has answered our .qw calls :(

luis - lots of ppl signed - almost all inactive, we r tryin to play sth but its rather hard, try to not kick us untill 13.11 - till then we will try our best to play as much as possible

Hopefully we will see some EQL games getting played at QHLAN! :E

So how come div1 played so little? Boring with small division and 2 games vs each clan?

- No one to play
- Not enough varity
- Tks totally inactive
- c88 totally inactive
- 5-6 more teams should have been moved up from div2, not only blt. Kinda ruined the season for every div1, specially when tks and c88 are inactive.

Guess the only games that could have been played more is f0m vs SD (again), f0m vs SR (again), or blt vs SD (again). Such small division also totally ruins the point of a division in the first place. Could might as well just gone to play offs with seeds.

It's a complete waste of time trying to gather 4 an evening, when your chances to get an EQL played that even is close to 0.

The only hope from begin with, as pointed out even preseason by some of us, for a competetive environment in this tourney, would be to just use 2 divisions. and basically split division 2 in half between the div1 teams and div3 teams. Then you could at least get some games played even if 1-2 teams went inactive, and it would make sense to try to gather 4 an evening to get a game played.

Yeah ive been thinking of 2 large, equally strong divisions and different playoffs depending on where u end up in the table.

Problem is that some of the lower teams told me they wouldnt play in that format because they would face 10+ total rape games and 4 even games (assuming we have 30 clans split into 2 divs) So then we end up with perhaps 12 teams per division and now the new low clans will get bashed in atleast 8 games and possibly quit.

Qw scene just isnt focused on competition anymore it seems.

Your idea could perhaps work too. But there is always so much whine about the border line cases. We are too bad for div1 ffs and we should be swapped with clan x. Or clan x is too good for this divison swap them to div1 etc etc.

We will see what makes the most sense.

True. Some other setup than division might be better. Maybe something like Fifa Soccer World Cup could work, with two playoffs. One for the bottom teams in each group, and one for the top teams in each group.

I'm basically just waiting for playoffs to start now tbh, cause I can't be bothered asking the same teams over and over with no reply anymore.

Yeah the bottom teams just have to endure some really unbalances games tho. They might argue that there is no reason for them to do that and just wanna go directly to their playoffs.

Im up for anything tho basically. Something to make the whole 4on4 circus worthwhile again :).

I mean, I knew we would most likely lose vs the top4 clans in div2 but the games still has to be played. Also, we probably gained something from it. Even beat oclan on dm2 which was great fun.

It's sad that qw died but on the other hand it warms my heart to see those teams and players who allways refused to play vs tVS whining for not getting any games now ;). It wasn't a problem to play only vs eachother back then... :P

...and fun to see it's not old tVS boys, xantom and milton whining here since i bet they don't even remember times when u actually got your opponents to play against you.

And think about it. Paradoks whining me on private chat on mirc that tVS is too good to play vs. tVS is only team having 4 starplayers. tVS should split up and make two teams. Asking our lineup before agreeing to play vs us. "It's your own fault nobody plays vs you" etc. bla bla bla :E And now they think lower div teams would for some reason want to play vs them even the difference between them is a lot bigger than the difference between tVS and the rest of div1 teams was back then.

...Rikoll telling us on private chats that he doesn't understand his teammates who wont play vs tVS...
(Rikoll actually is or was for long a player who was willing to try to become a better player and didnt care who the opponent was) =)
...Sr members telling us on private how they don't understand couple of their teammates for being how they are.

Suddenly many of the formerly nice players became really hostile towards everyone. I guess chance of winning does that to you or something. Your opponents become assholes if they win you etc.

And best solution to everything was trying to convince ppl here on forums that things that happened didn't happen =)

Site suggestion: team login required to comment to avoid random troll comments :)

We have a full team ready at times so with luck. (yes, we do seem to need alot of luck to achieve this) so dont kick us.

Mayby the admins should make a big shedule for all games before season starts(or now). If a team cant at that specific time they have to notife like 1 week in advance and suggest a new date/time(reasonable like 18-23cet). Postpone the game twice or dont show up and your walked over? :F That way there wouldnt have to be unneccessary idling..

BLT, SR and FOM remaining in Div1! :D

Hehe so much truth in those words Ihminen. Its sometimes nice to see that the lamers who didn't want to play against us have found their own grave. And now whining about the same problem. That is one reason I don't want to play with or versus those guys. Div2 is just so much more nice.
So as Paradoks wanted years ago, split top clans.

atleast div2 rocks! too bad about div1 but there's clearly not enough good clans for a proper div1.

yeah sure you could move up a couple of teams just to get the highest most pro div a bit more active... but check out all of BLT's games.... enough said, "we" don't belong there.

also, a mix league would be great! but i dunno the activity in that.

Hehe Dahmer, ofc div2 rocks when you only lost 1 map! ;)

Hooraytio wrote: "Qw scene just isnt focused on competition anymore it seems."

Are you of all people surprised? No wonder since most of the players are of the attitude that they don't care to get better?

All your lame excuses that I wanted to rape div2 instead of playing div1 where I belonged, instead of listening to when I said I wanted to increase the average skill level to avoid this situation. But hopefully now you understand what I meant, when you actually see the problem.

I am not surprised at all. Just stating the fact.

Lame excuses? :D
The fact is that there are alot of players now active in div2 that could easily play in div1 together and not even have to form a random clan, Quakeklan. For various reasons they didnt wanna continue.

The problem is still that the players that didnt reach the absolute top of div1 or believe they cant actually win div1 just dont wanna play there. Mid-low div1 clans disbanded and even teamkillers and c88 are idling. Go figure. Ihminen is correct when he says that noone wanna play vs the top clans.

You will raise the average skill in div2 by adding div1 players thats kinda obvious, but i find it hard to believe that you would somehow help the ones who have been div2/3 forever to become ALOT better by playing with and vs them this season. Most of us old div2 players will most likely never become good enough no matter how much you and others believe that practice is all that matters. Its not.

Well, the situation isnt at a point where we dont get ANY games at all, because thats not true, top teams do get games. But what I meant with no games was strictly EQL which was obvious when 5 teams were put in division 1. I'm sure many people thought we would infact get an interesting season anyway, despite the few teams but when TKS & C88 went idle it has really gone down hill.

But I know c88 lacked players for most part of the season since kingpin disappeared for a long time. No idea on TKS situation though, never heard a thing from them.

I guess activity has gone down alot the past weeks though.

Maybe next season will feature more teams, you never know. I think removing divisions all together would be a mistake though, I don't think anyone sees the point in a low div3 clan playing a top div1 clan.

A ladder and then a smackdown style competition as the la grande tournamento would probably be a nice refreshment in QW...

http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=64905#p6490 5

splitting up topclans seems like the only solution in order to make div1 more lively again.

having mid div1 players in div2 and bringing up their skill-level that way will just take too long, and im not even sure it will work that well.. especially it doesn't matter when we have monster teams like Fom's lineup now. They are still gonna get raped.

And the chance of old div0 players/clans coming back is pretty slim.

i think season 11 -> http://eql.quakeworld.nu/eql11/division/1

was really fun.
Top players was spread out pretty good with the exception of tvs dominating it was pretty undecisive amongst the other clans.

Everyone can get better. It all depends on the attitudeand the ppl you play WITH not AGAINST.
I guess I learnt a lot from ppl like Para, Zero and Murdock while playing with SR2. I would have never got better just by playing VS them.... Rapes are useless.
So adding 1-2 div1 players to div2 teams is great imho. It's just ppl's attitude and/or real life and some other minor things.
So perhaps we are really aoproaching the point at which something drastic like dsbanding all top clans will be inevitable for the game to survive :/
AND get that mix/captain league going. Thats a good idea after all!

its not Murdock but Murdoc , and i wouldnt expect you can make ppl play with bunch of donkeys.
even you kloze have said you have enought lamers from dc . btw ~sr -Para said your second nick is greedy fucker if i am correct

Rotfl, I wish the above imbecile stopped posting lies and bullshit and revealed herself instead of hiding behind internet anonymity :D

Yes, that was a good season Rikoll. My last one in div1 I think 8) We played even against Slackers, took a map from Sauna (and dm3 was also tight!) and didn't do too badly against Fusion!

#34. yes Eta-Beta, it was a good season indeed.

Am I Eta-Beta? :S

I think Haggis and Reppie are on to something here

blt, has become totally inactive as well since knave and torch are no where to be found (probably succeeding irl so much, as usual). We could add vikkinen on the lineup but he doesnt want to play in div1 so its basically me, jj and pai left :D

Although div1 is kinda inactive anyways it seems. Sad it is I tell ya! Just so sad! ;(

Cant say div3 looks any more active, with twice as many teams. Any thoughts on my previous post?

#36. If im rikoll, you are eta-beta

#30 razor - 2011-11-03 14:57 (81.201.222.XXX)
i think season 11 -> http://eql.quakeworld.nu/eql11/division/1
was really fun.

Hehe, I read some conversations from that season. I believe it was the season tVS started to lose motivation.

#11 blAze - 2010-05-10 10:58 (83.102.10.XXX)
This complete refusal to play outside officials was something I don't remember seeing before this season. I can understand that one doesn't prac the opponent a day before the game but when it goes on for the whole season it's getting ridiculous.


...and now

#8 Rikoll - 2011-11-02 15:22 (212.71.87.XXX)
It's a complete waste of time trying to gather 4 an evening, when your chances to get an EQL played that even is close to 0.

Difference is that at that time there still were some div1 teams left. After that season we still played one season but when it was as hard to get games we (I) thought it is pointless to continue.

Can't see there being active and healthy div1 in two years with this scene and these lineups anymore. Or at least not very interesting with 2-3 teams :)
Casual div2 gaming might continue being still fun.

Javves comment would still be valid
#13 javve - 2010-05-10 11:19 (130.243.160.XXX)
Fucking MAN UP and play whoever is available people!

...if there still were teams to be available :)

My advice for all the teams would be: Don't win! When you lose more often than you win on average ppl want to play vs you and teams comes to ask prac from you :P

Ihmi: But then the situation is opposite in a way now? I mean, we've played a lot of pracs with SD/SR, but that's about it. Our complaint is how the div1 was setup this year, in EQL, not that we can't play at all.

If the only solution for a surviving "top level" (its not really top level anymore then?) of 4on4 in QW is to force a split up of teams, there's no reason for me to continue to play at least. The whole competition aspect, where you gather up with the players you want to play with to do as good as possible, is really the only thing about 4on4 that appeal to me. Playing some random mix tournament? No thanks. Hopefully others think different of this than me if something like this is started up.

And again.. I don't blame any team that they don't wanna prac us, but at least I think the admins should have done a better job this season to create a competitive environment in div1.

Aha I get your point now razor, sorry for that ;)

#43 Rikoll - 2011-11-04 12:53 (83.241.253.XXX)
If the only solution for a surviving \"top level\" (its not really top level anymore then?) of 4on4 in QW is to force a split up of teams, there\'s no reason for me to continue to play at least. The whole competition aspect, where you gather up with the players you want to play with to do as good as possible, is really the only thing about 4on4 that appeal to me.

Yea, those were exactly our thoughts too.
That is why it was ridiculous those advises to "split tVS" to make div1 more interesting came from our toughest opponents leader Paradoks :)

#43 Rikoll - 2011-11-04 12:53 (83.241.253.XXX)
Ihmi: But then the situation is opposite in a way now? I mean, we've played a lot of pracs with SD/SR, but that's about it.

Yea, for us the best pracs would have been vs SR/F. Think how boring this would be if SR and SD refused to play vs you. ...and 2 seasons in a row =). Or has it gone to that allready?

I can see the idea of trying to get as good team as possible, from a competetive point of view.

But as the scene looks now it's obvious you won't get much games if you do that.
Because there simply isn't enough good players to form equally good teams.

So the choice is to form a superteam with div0 and play vs 2 clans.
Or a less good team and you can play alot more.

So what about DC/DC2 and Machinery - will they be removed?

Rikoll, the problem was mainly that there would have been too many clans that were like div 1.5 (which are now in div2). While the gap between the rest of div2ers and div3s was too big. So the divisions would skillwise in this case been something like: div1, 12 clans, div2 5 clans, div3 15 clans or so. So with 5 very active (for a long time) teams it seemed like the best solution at the time to go with 5 clans this season in div1 with multiple games instead of 3-5 dropout clans becuse of beeing div1 and a non excisting div2. This is the explanation from that point, ofc things has happened and nothing is predictable considering what the teams make these days so it's not easy to make any decisions considering the divisions.

I do understand that it's difficult, but we don't have to go with 3 divisions? 2 divisions with 16 teams in each? 8)

And please consider scheduled times for officials as i suggested (#19). So theres atleast some points for having a team ready. That way we'd get rid of this standstill. Huff puff, any life out there??