Since it has come up to us that some clans are using
enemyforceskins 3 while others didn't know it we decided to
have a discussion about it...
... and we came to the conclusion that it is forbidden. You
may NOT have different skins on your opponents, all must
have the same skin. Your teammates may have what ever skins
they have but not enemies. Since using the enemyforceskins 3
makes it possible for teams to all know who to shoot on, and
it would disable the possibility to sneak around the map
with a weapon etc.
How to check this?
Well it's easy, write: f_skins -> the line will most
probably include the text of: "is using 100%
fullbrightskins" <- that is ok, but if it shows after the
text that a player: Enemy skins forcing -> make him change
Shortly: enemyforceskins 3 is considered a cheat from now
Pages: 1 | Previous Next | Total of 46 comments | First Last comment first
#12008-11-16 20:19 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
when, and how the hell, did this get implemented and
released? ofc this is cheating and should be banned in all
#22008-11-16 20:21 by ok98 (213.112.99.XXX)
lol, becaus some of the players dont read the changelog when
a new ezquake is released the others get punnished.
#32008-11-16 20:25 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
ffs ok98, the problem is that the ezquake developers just
throw all the shit they can think of into the client because
changes like this needs to be discussed in a wider forum
than a shitty changelog ok98 since it's clearly a major
change in gameplay
#42008-11-16 20:38 by 1tsinen (130.232.122.XXX)
Well earlier it has been about using it thrue the qizmos and
the general rule of that was that it is not legal. So using
this by Ezquake would be more "ok"? This was something most
people knew about, just didn't realize that it wouldn't show
up with f_modified or something like that in the normal
checks or rulesets etc (which I personally believed blocked
those). So now there is one more rule and one more check to
do, not nice.
#52008-11-16 20:38 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
This should definately be allowed, because the same thing
can be achieved manually just by scouting the skin naming
format of your opponent team and placing a matching set of
skins to your skins directory.
We used this years ago, though haven't bothered lately.
Only thing this command does is that it takes a little less
work to do it.
#62008-11-16 20:43 by zapp (217.211.56.XXX)
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it should be
allowed. I would prefer if it was possible to somehow force
server side one skin for enemy team.
#72008-11-16 20:45 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
while that's true blaze, only way too serious and ambitious
clans would go through the trouble of exploiting that
"cheat". the majority (div 2-6) probably wouldn't which
makes that issue somewhat smaller than this is/could be.
#82008-11-16 21:04 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
Personally I can not possibly view this as a "cheat",
individual skin support has been in the qwcl client from the
get go. Just because some people are too lazy to use the
features that the client offers doesn't mean using them is
cheating! Some players don't bother with weapons scripts...
#92008-11-16 21:18 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
before this "feature": a team facing you could easily 1. all
use the same skin, 2. rename their skins 1 minute before the
game to avoid this.
now, with this "feature": an individual skin can be FORCED
upon an opposing player, even if the opposing team all uses
the same skin (or no skin).
also, if you wanted individual enemy skins before this,
using your old method, you would have to 1.hope that the
opposing team uses individual skins 2. scout out all those
skin names and hope they wouldn't change them. 3. make sure
all your teammates kept up-to-date skin libraries.
I'd say this feature is a tad bit more than"only thing this
command does is that it takes a little less work to do it."
#102008-11-16 21:21 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
"Just because something is possible doesn't mean it should
be allowed. I would prefer if it was possible to somehow
force server side one skin for enemy team."
Sure, but the same is true for "just because something is
supported doesn't mean it should be banned".
All in all many of these bans seem to have very little logic
I would prefer more allowing conventions, things shouldn't
be banned without sound reasoning and general agreement.
#112008-11-16 21:29 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
"I'd say this feature is a tad bit more than"only thing this
command does is that it takes a little less work to do
Not really, because in practice the issues you mention
actually never came up, not once. So it's pretty much
theoretical. Also renaming a set of four skins would not
take long, even just before the game.
#122008-11-16 21:29 by 1tsinen (130.232.122.XXX)
I guess 3 days of spamwhine in priv doesn't count as ppl
beeing worried about it? Most players doesn't even know
about it. Some issues if a team uses this would be like: All
in the team automatically know who to shoot on, compared to
the enemyteam with same skin -> they can sneak out the low
hp rl guy and if somebody got killed they can't be 100%
certain it was him. Also if this low hp rl guy escapes and
doesn't die, everybody know right away if he has a weapon or
not if you even have a little tp in your team.
So in other words you don't really have to do anything
tp-wise except tell your friends which skin the enemy rl
has. Then you can skip all the rest of the binds and you "tp
is fixed" -> this is what qw should be?
Also the possibility to mix players so the enemy doesn't
know who has the weapon would be impossible.
All these together makes the keeping of control much harder
to break, so imo the only solution to twist 4on4 into
something afaik in most cases haven't been is to ban it.
#132008-11-16 21:47 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
blaze, doesn't change the fact that this shit can be applied
to a player not using any skin at all, which is a huge
also, itsinen, is there anything stopping a clan from
enabling this after countdown? this needs to be disabled
server side if not (or removed from code, but we all know
that's never gonna happen)
#142008-11-16 21:49 by Eta-bETa (78.69.61.XXX)
This removes an aspect of qw that makes qw more exciting.
I don't want qw less exciting. It's crystal clear to me. Ban
it ffs... ban it... or even better: Remove the feature...
#152008-11-16 22:05 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
1tsinen: As said individual skins can be applied to enemy
players without this command. This has been possible and
probably used by top teams forever.
djevulsk: Typically teams want individual skins for
teammates, so they will have individual skins set. Sure, in
theory you can have same skins or no skins but I don't see
it happening much.
Eta-bETa: "This removes an aspect of qw that makes qw more
exciting. I don't want qw less exciting."
Having low health and rl and knowing that four enemies are
furiously looking for you is not exciting to you? :)
Well, whatever, I haven't even used it, I'm just slightly
annoyed by this general "for the love of god, BAN
#162008-11-16 22:20 by zapp (217.211.56.XXX)
The attitude isn't to bad everything, alot of things are
improvements such as client side min ping. However additions
that remove skill from qw is something that should be
banned. To be good at qw should really mean that you are
good in all aspects and not reduced to aim only like q3 has
#172008-11-16 22:51 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
Well, with this feature it is actually possible to try and
hunt down an enemy rl as a team. Without it it's much more
random. Now you can report the movements of the enemy rl to
your team and work together to bring him down. The issue is
more of a hunting skill vs hiding skill than simply
"removing" skill. Of course without this an enemy rl can try
to hide amongst his teammates and your team just have to
pick their targets randomly instead of focusing your fire as
a result of good teamplay.
#182008-11-16 23:15 by 1tsinen (130.232.122.XXX)
Djevulsk: Well the client reports if it is changed thrue
blAze: you just mentioned almost all those things that makes
it bad. And just for your info we aren't against new things,
only if it is "secretly" possible for some people and most
people don't even know it -> quite big advantage for those
who have the skins "on" compared to those who haven't got
them. Otherwise as I understood already earlier there was a
gentlemens rule about nobody would use this, but doesn't
seem like it so I guess it has to be said out loud. Imo this
is comparable to ghosting since most didn't know about it.
#192008-11-16 23:41 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
Well if introducing more teamplay opportunities into
teamplay is bad, then I suppose it is bad. :)
By banning this obvious command that anyone can read up in
the manual, you make it back into a "secret". As a command
it is no more secret than any other new command in the
I still think that simply banning this command while
allowing the old way is ridiculous. Out of sight, out of
#202008-11-16 23:53 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
The reason I brought this up is that this is simply another
addition to the long list of inconsistencies. Changing skins
on players? Ok. Changing skins on rockets? Ok. Changing
skins on backpacks? Nope.
Allowing cl_fakeshaft, but not r_shaftalpha? Banning
#212008-11-17 00:54 by 1tsinen (130.232.122.XXX)
Well mistakes makes qw what it is, so you want to remove
mistakes to make it even more about control than what it
already is? And if people have played qw for ~12 years, do
think they want a change in tp if they've liked it for those
years? This does also remove the "surprise factor" that the
enemy may do, so why not make the weapons show anyways if
you want to use these things? Would be the same to put
"rocketlauncher" in the crouch of the enemy when he has sg
in the hand wouldn't it?
#222008-11-17 01:25 by zapp (217.211.56.XXX)
The scary thing for me if this would be allowed is not so
much this addition in itself but rather the path qw as a
community is taking then. What is the next step after this
then? For me its having skins that change color depending on
opponents amount of health and that blinks depending on what
weapon he has.
However a point is, that if people want this to be allowed
it will be allowed just like fullbrights was. I just dont
like the path qw would take with having this allowed and
then allowing teamoverlay.
#232008-11-17 10:29 by blAze (83.102.10.XXX)
What do you mean about mistakes and control, do not
"And if people have played qw for ~12 years, do think they
want a change in tp if they've liked it for those years?"
This feature has been available and in use for those 12
years, the only change here is trying to remove it...
"so why not make the weapons show anyways if you want to use
these things? Would be the same to put "rocketlauncher" in
the crouch of the enemy when he has sg in the hand wouldn't
That wouldn't require any kind of teamplay to mark the
enemies now would it? Same goes for zapp's comparisons.
#242008-11-17 14:57 by JohnNy_cz (78.128.193.XXX)
It'd be great if more people tried to discuss this feature
by itself like Blaze, than talking about non-senses like
"the path of qw" and other *cough* stuff.
Most of you should go and read something about Qizmo color
#252008-11-17 15:01 by JohnNy_cz (78.128.193.XXX)
And from the client side: All you can request is how this
feature should be controlled. Requests to remove some
feature from our code won't be accepted.
#262008-11-17 15:13 by Hooraytio (89.160.23.XXX)
plz remove ezquake so everyone can use qwcl+qizmo again! :D
#272008-11-17 17:48 by Gamer (193.166.235.XXX)
wtf@adding features like this without asking anyone. We used
to have our skinnames "e3590uegalkjgdsl.pcx" style in koff
just to prevent this crap(yeah doesn't help at all if they
really want to use individual enemyskins).
tVS is the only team I know of that used individual skins
for enemies. I played in SR for a long time and we never
used this "feature", so I think blaze was exaggerating when
he said its been used for 12 years. Maybe tVS has, don't
know about others...
This feature removes the skill of knowing which enemy is the
weak rl guy. ban plz
#282008-11-17 18:12 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
"This feature removes the skill of knowing which enemy is
the weak rl guy. ban plz"
As if there was a "skill" that you can use to magically
identify an rl enemy out of identical skins. Sounds like
stuff from "Heroes". :P Get real people.
I guess I should make us individual skins again just because
banning this command is so silly and has no effect.
#292008-11-17 18:15 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
Perhaps we should test this "skill". Lets get 4 guys on a
server and one of them picks rl. Then they go stand in line.
Then we tell the "skilled" player to join to the server and
point out the guy with rl. :D
#302008-11-17 18:28 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
wow, that last comment was pure class.
i guess we need to bring back rulesets if the ezquake
developers continue like this. in the end there will simply
be too many "features" to turn off before starting a game
(/teamoverlay and now having to check f_skins and who knows
what else will pop up in the near future).
and johnny_cz, we know you get a hard on from bloating your
client code with crap so i really don't think anyone even
tries to convince you to remove stuff.. anymore at least. i
still detest you ezquake devs for seriously ruining fuhquake
with that incompatible and frankly unnecessary colored
#312008-11-17 19:23 by 1tsinen (130.232.122.XXX)
"This feature has been available and in use for those 12
years, the only change here is trying to remove it..."
Most people do actually think that it has not, many don't
even know about it existing. I didn't know some clans used
this since afaik there is a "gentlemens rule" about not
Also: why ban ghosting? This does the same thing, just tell
once who has rl and you don't even have any help of the
ghoster since you know who has a weapon! :)
As said, if you put 4 guys in a row nobody would stand a
100% chance of picking right, so yes, that's why skinforcing
sucks since your opponent can't confuse you even if they
like to... and afaik that is also a skill to "group and
confuse" to save the rl.
& more to blAze: Go and read about rerouting on
quakeworld.nu, since no more qizmos will be needed so we
could actually make Renzo really happy and ban qizmos too
:P. Then what would you do?
Johnny_cz: We don't want you to remove it, just needs
something that tells in f_modified or something like that if
player using it.
#322008-11-17 19:59 by JohnNy_cz (78.128.193.XXX)
Itsinen: This a request that you (your league) should have
brought up in the rulesets mailing list ezQuake is running
On Oct 12 I've sent email to you all saying "Another feature
I'm asking for your last vote is the new skins forcing,
documented here:" + following 24 lines of my email pointing
to the documentation, explaining how it now works, how it is
protected, etc. I've even asked two members from the list if
they've received my message. Why did I do all that? Because
I knew exactly this situation can happen!
But it didn't help. You all on the list decided to take the
attitude of acting like everything is alright and you
resolve the issue only when it really starts smelling
Now it all falls on your heads, ezQuake offered you all the
options, you ignored it.
Deciding on the rules is up to league admins in the list,
not up to ezQuake devs. I think this is the way all of you
prefer, isn't it?
I don't understand all the emotional reactions here, how is
this feature worse than Qizmo color forcing? Someone
elaborate, please. My word is that now it's finally
controlled (via f_skins), while there was no way to control
the Qizmo feature.
#332008-11-17 20:03 by djevulsk (85.24.188.XXX)
well i'll have to give you credits for that, johnny_cz. i
sure wasn't aware that you had discussed this in such a
timely manner and even followed up on it. gw.
#342008-11-17 20:45 by Gamer (193.166.235.XXX)
#28 Please stop trolling.
#352008-11-17 21:40 by ok98 (213.112.99.XXX)
I dont take any side of this discusion, BUT i read the rules
before i started to use it, and yesterday 30sec before
eqlgame i had to turn it off. And what hapend, my skins
didnt work as they should, enemyquad got wrong skin and
other things. So plz dont change things like this in the
midle of a season. Tried to fix it for 10min before i had to
go ready in the game :(
#362008-11-17 23:16 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
"why ban ghosting? This does the same thing, just tell once
who has rl and you don't even have any help of the ghoster
since you know who has a weapon! :)"
Personally I'd prefer that only the players on the field
should participate in the game and only their individual and
team skills should matter. No outside help.
"and afaik that is also a skill to "group and confuse" to
save the rl."
That is very true, as I already mentioned somewhere above.
Just like I said, the issue is hiding skill vs hunting
skill, not no skill vs skill. With individual skins the
skill is to communicate enemy movements and act on that
"more to blAze: Go and read about rerouting on
quakeworld.nu, since no more qizmos will be needed so we
could actually make Renzo really happy and ban qizmos too
:P. Then what would you do?"
You don't need anything special for this, no skin forcing,
no qizmos. All you need is a skin image in your skins folder
that is named to match your opponents skin setting. This is
the most basic skins functionality that has been supported
by qwcl always.
#372008-11-17 23:25 by blAze (83.150.112.XXX)
For example in tVS we have skin settings such as tvs-bla,
tvs-ihm, tvs-mil and so on. If you want to see individual
skins on us, you put tvs-bla.pcx, tvs-ihm.pcx, tvs-mil.pcx
etc. skins into your skins folder. Now when you turn off any
skin forcing, the client will show these skins on us.
#382008-11-18 11:42 by B1aze (212.5.80.XXX)
I use this feature for ages.
And few players from my teams too (NewWave, 4Honor,
NoPasaran! and so on).
#392008-11-19 02:27 by reppie (82.73.192.XXX)
hehe never knew this was possible
if i had to guess i'd guess the majority of the clans/player
never used this :)
i can understand blaze's point about it .. and what he says
(more teamplay..hunting someone down as a team) is a good
thing .. but the 'bad side' of it seems bigger
i dont think i'd like it much if everyone started using
this, con's outweigh the pro's for me :)
#402008-11-19 09:19 by blAze (83.102.10.XXX)
I'm only opposing a placebo solution of banning the new
shortcut command. If this feature is properly disabled in
the future, I don't care. As said, we haven't bothered to
even use it in a long time. Right now though, it's not
possible to stop people from using it, so there shouldn't be
a rule about it.
#412008-11-19 10:18 by 1tsinen (130.232.122.XXX)
Just read the mail ezq mail again and I don't wonder why I
haven't noticed this. There are ~3 points about the same
thing, first one on this issue is about changing color on
the skin (yeah, this sounds normal doesn't it?). The second
is a wiki (used link), so I've checked that one, since it
also says blablabla skins (not really much of enemys have
different skins so far) I have probably skipped the example
of it since it didn't seem like something special.
OK98: who can I blame for yesterdays ~4min 220-490ms pl0-50
#422008-11-19 17:11 by Hagge (85.24.185.XXX)
1tsinen, blame Canada?
#432008-11-19 17:12 by Hagge (85.24.185.XXX)
Or sr - it seems to have been working throughout history =)
B1aze, you are talking about own mates' skin difference, not
enemy's team players, right? Im tellin just cos im sure -
nobody of rest nopasaranies never used this second option(i
personally not even divide skins for mates)
Showing Page 1 of 1 A total of 46 comments Previous Next Page: 1
Note On this site we log the IP of all users who post comments on matches/articles.