#1 2007-03-21 09:24 by Elguapo (81.170.235.XXX)

hello boys!

This game finally started, after some you-know-it-will-happend-ping-whine, anyways we choose dm3 and had a bad start. eventually we got into the game and took over some crucial positions, though d2 was 2 strong this day and got the last pent etc.

dm2 was pretty much the same story, but just in the ending few minutes, greatest part of the game we had controll over quad/water/tele area but quadrun didnt always manage to swap low and kill their rls, so eventually they managed to take over quadarea and in the last minutes the fragdiff ran away more than "it should" concidering how close the game really was.

ggs d2, going 4 div1? :<

#2 2007-03-21 10:33 by serox (217.150.108.XXX)

hard game for me on both maps. nothing went my way and I was rushed when ever I was weak.

Got owned by telefrag few early on in dm3 with RL.

Dm2 very unlucky and it felt like my rockets were doign no damage:)

Finding it so much harder playing vs teams who use mm3 at the moment.

#3 2007-03-21 12:17 by blasphemer (87.207.121.XXX)

geez , i did a big shit on dm3 but rest of the team didnt, dm2 was so close... we just managed to kill them in the end of the game with the tight lock, ye our rox did no damage to them (wtf? :E)
ggs, and gl

#4 2007-03-21 13:02 by edvin (81.235.153.XXX)

ping whine before game then when we got a lead on dm2 it was whine about we were ghosting ? :S lol! gg

#5 2007-03-21 13:19 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

we always suspect ghosting/coaching when we play vs mm3 team and see one+ of it's member on spectator, trust no1 rule ;)

core's pinghwine was indeed sad but it's lasted only for about 20 minutes, we've had longer pingwars in the past, not that we like it, we just want as fair game as possible, rerouting whole clan from 26 to 39 ms shouldn't be ever too hard, especially when we got average above 40... i know it's hard to give up your 13-25ms but if we do the same so can you. if we allowed div0 mille to run around with his 25ms he would prolly win teh game for ya.

from my pov:

dm3: it started not bad for us, core got first rl and managed to get it to ra but i took penta (kinda too soon by an accident but what the hell) and second rl so ya was ours. enemy rl didnt have the courage to come for first quad so he died in ra from quaded rocket instead. from that moment we took the lead and never let it go. we were doing fine until some bad idea by blasp who left ra for sng and died there just before the quad. core managed to take ra back so we had to retreat a bit. anyway, the game felt long and the score was always quite close, none of the teams could lock the map for good, but serox and keyser managed to make some nice and imporant frags in the end so eventually we won with a safe margin. gg.


dm2: this started out with keyser taking low rl and killing enemy quad+rl so eventually we took the lead and locked tele/q in first 2-3 minutes, but as it is known we dont like easy games so serox decided to kill meh at quad-path (150/100/rl - 2 grenades plus rocket in da face) and then he gave away his rl to enemy quad so we lost control in the blink of an eye. as we expected core took use of that present and in the middle of the game they were leading by 70+ frags plus they had tele/q control and were doing trips to low all the time. it was then when we decided to do massive attack on quad. we killed some of theirs rl, they killed some of ours, for next two minutes the score didn't change so we were still 70 frags behind. next minute brought some changes - we noticed we cleared all of them so we locked low/tele asap and started to frag. they spammed low quite heavy and our quad was often too busy at tele waiting for chrismas so eventually they managed to take low back but now it was 3 minutes to go and a tie. 2 minutes to go - we were leading by 17 frags. keyser timeouted at hi-lift with rl, leaving blasp alone there, so core took tele/q. i barricaded in ramh and ordered a bit of cs 3on4 practice so blasp was doing some serious shooting in highrl trying not to die and get out of there. 1 minute to go and keyser is back luckily spawning at ramh so no easy frags for core. blasp somewhow came to ramh too. last enemy quad charged us but died fast spammed with 2 bazookas and shotguns. gg.

#6 2007-03-21 13:53 by edvin (81.235.153.XXX)

well Milles ping was 39 one second then the next it was 70... and div0... says the team who got keyser and serox... :>

#7 2007-03-21 14:17 by serox (217.150.108.XXX)

@edvin: I did not say ghosting did I? When I see a team is using mm3 and also switches players on each map and one goes to spec, it is always possible.

With that in mind it often puts me off my game. I had some strange things happen to me on each map but still did not say directly to you about ghosting.

The ping whine was all your side too btw. We wanted a fair game by the rules and you wanted players to use 25ms etc.

Your player who had a spike also had FPS drops which caused the ping spike. Once the FPS drops stopped, the ping was fine.

GG

#8 2007-03-21 15:59 by Mille (81.235.153.XXX)

The ping wasn't fine at all. Not at dm3 atleast, I had spikes whole game (but ofc you didn't notice that). Don't know about the fps-drop-thing, just know I didn't lag before rerouting.

And with that knowledge I don't think 7ms avg difference is too much to complain about.

The dm2 was better, not as much spikes, still some though. Anyway the whine before the game had already made me play bad, shouldn't have played at all. Hopefully I never have to play you guys every again. GG

#9 2007-03-21 16:01 by Mille (81.235.153.XXX)

And btw, serox asking "how do I check who specs who?" (guess he got a ghostfeeling) after being bollad too many times, you guys really made my day.

#10 2007-03-21 16:37 by serox (217.150.108.XXX)

you had 25ms, we wanted you to reroute to 39. I have 25ms in UK also so i am as use to 39ms as you.

Yes I asked for command on who was speccing me, and guess who was speccing me when I checked.

The game felt strange from my pov thats why i asked.

#11 2007-03-21 16:38 by Lakso (85.228.224.XXX)

its /tracklist ....and I recognice this from earlier season...the div0 comment was the best ever...(serox and keyser) ? :D looks like ggs anyway..

#12 2007-03-21 18:45 by Hagge (85.24.185.XXX)

all the whine is a great read, just keep it coming! :d

#13 2007-03-21 20:57 by Mille (62.20.218.XXX)

The 39 ms wasn't the problem, the spikes to 60+ was.

And the div0 mille you have made up doesn't exist. Maybe middle div2 :)

With the names in your clan I think your attitude is very lame, imo you're the strongest team in div2 and you can't let me alone play with 26ms instead of spikes between 39 and 60+.

I LOVE YOU ALL (not)

#14 2007-03-21 22:06 by TheEvilDog (81.225.243.XXX)

Well this is not the first time d2 whine after their victory. It's like tradition, always whine after the match. I suppose this two teams will be fighting over the topspot in this div, both clans looking strong.

#15 2007-03-21 22:43 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

we wanted to get a fair game, you wanted to get an unfair advantage - whose attitude can be called lame?

frankly, your attitude is not only lame, it's complete absurd

why do you think you DESERVE better ping during leagues? because of what? i'm used to 25ms and it's not easier for me to play with 40+ floating 70 than for you, comprehende?

even tho we asked you to reroute you still had BETTER average ping and didn't have player pinging higher than 39 (except several spikes), so you had BETTER conditions in general

i personally had more 60+ ping spikes than you and my ping was floating 39-49 all the time, demo is available at wargamez if you want to check

and one more thing - names don't play

LOVE YOU TOO (not)

#16 2007-03-22 01:21 by soma (134.130.50.XXX)

plast ftw! agree with everything he said. swedes: don't be such tits please :(

#17 2007-03-22 08:22 by record (87.206.242.XXX)

enable PUNKBASTER plz! :<<<

#18 2007-03-22 08:37 by Elguapo (81.170.235.XXX)

haha, the whine about div0-mille is just 2 funny regarding that rest of us (me, nopee,edvin,crea,und) are coming straight from div3 and even 4, when u have _2_ "div0" and even 2 since long established div2-players. Claiming that mille with 7 ms lower than you would win the game by himself in just rediculous. Ofc i think fair games is the best too, but plz dont give us such lame excuses :)

#19 2007-03-22 10:20 by serox (217.150.108.XXX)

I dont think we claimed that Mille would have won it for you if he had 25ms. We just wanted to play a fair game!

Plast sum's it all up really with his last post.

I dont know who you guys are I have never heard of any of you tbh.

#20 2007-03-22 12:50 by edvin (195.67.252.XXX)

serox what plast wrote like forth comment of this match was exactly what you say you didn't do... here i copy paste it for you...

if we allowed div0 mille to run around with his 25ms he would prolly win teh game for ya.

#21 2007-03-22 13:34 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

that's _MY_ personal opinion with a bit of sarcasm in it (you may try to guess which part %))

#22 2007-03-22 14:33 by persu (85.227.139.XXX)

Men hur sv?rt kan det vara?? Pinsam f?rlust Core !
H?rmed ?r ni b?nkade.. Jag f?r k?ra 4on1 i framtiden...

#23 2007-03-22 16:20 by serox (217.150.108.XXX)

edvin: sorry did not see plasts comment on that 25ms div0 thing.

no1 on the server was div0 imo.

#24 2007-03-22 16:38 by Mille (62.20.218.XXX)

Yeah, fair games is the best ofcourse. But hey, plast I couldn't do anything about your spikes, if I had been able to remove them I would.

About my spikes, we could have made them go away, with 7ms avg difference between the teams, which is = nothing.

If I had 39ms and you got 25ms I would never ask you to reroute, don't think it's too much difference.

Over and out

#25 2007-03-22 16:55 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

mille, we both know you would never agree to play on server where you got (as a team) average bigger than us and around 45 (lowest pinging 39, highest pinging 50+, so exactly our situation)

i bet some of you can get 39ms in poland (half of the swedes can including moltas) and the rest can get stable 52ms

but hey, let me take your word for it! so next time we'll play on server where blasp/me got 25ms, moltas 39ms and serox 51ms and you 39-50+ (as we had in this uk-pl lineup), and we'll see if the 7-13ms difference is never considered too high

or why wait for possible playoffs or next season, just play vs hgc in poland, they can get average 30ms there i guess vs yours 45ms and you'll if it's any difference when you play 45ms vs 30ms polish team or 45ms vs 60ms polish team, i personally would expect another "Pinsam f?rlust" for core :X

#26 2007-03-22 16:56 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

and you'll +see if it's any

#27 2007-03-22 17:14 by Mr Brightside (87.127.77.XXX)

Hello ppl, the discussions about ping b4 the game just dragged, thought core could re-route but then with all the probs in the end i didnt care and just wanted the game to start.
As for me being div0, plz as much as i would like to be, im not :)
Anyway ggs core, was tough. gl in league

#28 2007-03-22 17:44 by Mr Brightside (87.127.77.XXX)

Now all i need is to get rid of my constant pl and i will be happy :) im off to abuse my isp

#29 2007-03-22 18:31 by murdoc (84.245.9.XXX)

div0legs!

#30 2007-03-22 21:48 by Mille (62.20.218.XXX)

I can't speak for the others, so I can't alone decide what server we should play on.

Btw, I don't know what servers you usually play on and what ping you/me got there. You never asked for another server so I thought it was the best solution to play on wargamez or whatever.

That wasn't really the thing. The thing was I said stable 39ms is fine. If you could get stable ping without rerouting in a game vs. me I wouldn't force you to reroute to get spikes.

I don't know if I would like to play at all with much higher ping than 39 though, but rather play with stable 45 than spikes from 30-60 I guess.

#31 2007-03-22 22:09 by Eta-bETa (90.227.84.XXX)

Whine detected! Play more, whine less. Wise words from what's left of Campbusters

#32 2007-03-23 00:24 by Svante (80.217.248.XXX)

People who wants equally lousy ping for everyone sickens me, reminds you of sossar!

#33 2007-03-23 03:56 by nakoz (212.247.170.XXX)

Plast, I thought you said that the average was the thing to focus on in these situations???

Please let me quote - "if we allowed div0 mille to run around with his 25ms he would prolly win teh game for ya".

If moltas - without problem (mentioned above) - can play on .pl server with 39 ping, then I suppose I have a few questions for you to answer.

1) You don't want a specific player to have a ping advantage?
2) Moltas can reroute to 39ms?

In Sweden we call it someone that "turns his coat by the wind" (eller n?t?).

For further information, we've seen plast on the other side before this game, this time moltas played with 19 & 22ms vs. 40.
http:// qw.fragzone.com/eql4/matches.php?id=59

bg sassa then, bg d2 now? :o

#34 2007-03-23 04:17 by nakoz (212.247.170.XXX)

One small addition to previous post:

Plast-adokS had his one-man-admin-show this time vs. core. Last time he couldn't get his will through until he called for polish-backup-admins.

And please don't give us all your shit about "Im not used to play with 40ms".

Let me do the maths for you Plast:

Last EQL season - all maps included - Plast played with ms:
63, 51, 53, 54, 53, 58, 51, 51, 58, 62, 53, 51, 53, 51, 51, 53, 52, 51, 53, 60, 54, 56, 53

= AVG PING 54,1

23/23 maps on a season should somehow have made you "used" to it. I can agree that we play with the same ping, but just before our game, I'll send you my .cfg and you have to play with it.

IT IS THE SAME CONDITIONS, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD BE USED TO IT.

#35 2007-03-23 12:32 by Mille (62.20.218.XXX)

Good to know nakoz. I guess it's not the same rules for all of us.

GG

#36 2007-03-23 12:40 by Elguapo (81.170.235.XXX)

nakoz <3

U're the detective around here! Totally agree with you.

And as seen before, it doesn't seems to be a coincident that d2 always are involved when there is ping-whine after a game. and specifically plast seems to be the main man behind this. For example, during the ping-whine before this game started, serox said "lets just play now", legs said the same thing now in his comment above. But plast was standing his ground. Maybe u should concider to take ping-issues a little less serious plast to avoid this endless (?) ping-whine that follows so many games vs swe-clans. Just a thought.. peace

#37 2007-03-23 14:38 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

Svante: I feel sorry for you.

Nakoz:

> 1) You don't want a specific player to have a ping advantage?

If opponent team got, besides that one player, also overall average ping better, then the answer is "no, I don't want". But if we got better average ping even with that one player pinging lowest, then I don't care. Simpler version especially for you: if Mille had 13ms and Core average was 50 no one of us would whine about it as we had average 45.

> 2) Moltas can reroute to 39ms?

I guess he can. Ask him.

> For further information, we've seen plast on the other side before this game,
> this time moltas played with 19 & 22ms vs. 40.

True as hell. So, do you claim in that particular game (from half year ago - you still pissed about ur defeat? %]) the pings were unfair?

When did you last check ur brain? Maybe it's time for a periodical examination?

> 23/23 maps on a season should somehow have made you "used" to it.

23 maps per season. That's 460 minutes, so 7-8 hours per lets say 10 weeks. That's 0.8 hour per week. During the season I usually play 15 hours per WEEK _at least_. 0.8 of 15 is 5.3%.

Yes, I guess that 5% is deciding factor that I own you even on ping 50. Must be.

But hey, I got simple solution for you. Just sacrifice 5% of your qw-time and play it with ping 50+. You will get use to it and will be able to rape us next time.

Elguapo:

> plast seems to be the main man behind this

True as hell again. I'm clan leader and I decide. If I play for another clan the other clan leader decides. It's just that simple.

> Maybe u should concider to take ping-issues a little less serious plast to avoid this endless

Maybe you just should accept the fact that there is NO SINGLE REASON you should play with ping advantage during leagues and just reroute fast enough to spare US delay?

The ping-issue problem has been around for very long time. I've made MANY statements about it, here in comments, also on qw.nu forum and even with direct talks with some of the admins.

The rules eventually were changed, not in best way possible, but are a bit better than it was before. Now I can:
a) enforce minping or rerouting (which I did in this game),
b) ask an admin for a help if I still feel that rules aren't doing good job in some lineup configurations, especially when it's 13 40 50 55 vs 25 25 25 25 and a) can't be enforced.

I don't fight against single persons, single clans. I fight against some fucked point of view that has been shared by too many people for far too long. The pings in our league games as long as I'm around will be always as fair as possible no matter if you like it or don't. I hate wasting time for pingwhine but if that's the only solution to get a fair game - let it be.

#38 2007-03-23 15:36 by edvin (81.235.153.XXX)

lol this is what you get for some ping diff 7-10 ping avg more or less, anyways seems to have started a QuakeWorld War1 here?

if Mille had 13ms and Core average was 50 no one of us would whine about it as we had average 45. <- plast

if we would have 50 avg and you 45 then you wouldn't have whined you say? but its just 2 more avg then we had the game against you when you started all this.....

PUSS?

#39 2007-03-23 15:36 by edvin (81.235.153.XXX)

then = than

#40 2007-03-23 16:42 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

are you drunk? you all had 25ms when i asked you all to reroute to at least 39ms so your average could be around 40 while our was 45

i know you would want to have average 35 (25 39 39 39) or even lower but that's ain't gonna ever happen when it's official game and i play, you simply won't ever get both these two important things better at once

* if you have lowest pinging player your average must be at least as big as ours,
* if your average ping is lower than ours your lowest pinging player can't have smaller ping than our lowest pinging player

this is what i call FAIR game, FAIR conditions, just deal with it

#41 2007-03-23 18:04 by nakoz (217.28.34.XXX)

To start off, yeah, I really hate your ping-whine plast. And I have no problems with the rest of D2. You just piss me off, since it's always you. I don't care for winning or losing, I only play for fun, so no, I'm don't get sad from losing, I get sad of stubborn idiots.

Now, just to make a point:

Quote plast:
"If opponent team got, besides that one player, also overall average ping better, then the answer is "no, I don't want". "

I asked you the last time:
So I can ping myself to 80ms and we could have dje playing with 13ms. That would somehow be an awesome tactics from our side since dje is 2hot2handle with 13ms and I suck no matter my ping.

But obviously that's okay with you from now on? (kappv?ndar'n)
Great, looking forward to our game!
I say I play for fun, and yeah, it's the same amount of low-class fun with 45ms as with 80ms. o/


Quote plast:
"When did you last check ur brain? Maybe it's time for a periodical examination?"

Very mature, indeed. I know your an idiot, now you prove yourself worthy my title. Cheers.


"23 maps per season. That's 460 minutes, so 7-8 hours per lets say 10 weeks. That's 0.8 hour per week. During the season I usually play 15 hours per WEEK _at least_. 0.8 of 15 is 5.3%."

That you even fall for that shit? I thought you had more to come with than that.
So of your 15 hours/week, that's all duel/2on2 on .pl-servers with 13ms?
ODDS!
You never prac???? Who do you prac?
Please enlighten me.

I'm presenting fact and quotes, you present bullshit. Really, thanks man.
You're only making a fool out of yourself - again.


Quote plast:
"I fight against some fucked point of view that has been shared by too many people for far too long."

The only two fucked points imho is that east-europe (supra-minority) sets up the rules and that we don't have a nordic league where all who wants signs up, and all games is played on nordic servers. We would for sure fill 3-4 divisions, and today, ten years after quake was released, I think most people want to just enjoy the game.

I enjoy playing .dk and .fi under 30ms, works fine. I don't enjoy reroute to a spikey 45ms.

Last time I thought you we're just a stupid man of principals, but now I realize that you are a man that does what's best for yourself, even if that means to swap side.

#42 2007-03-23 18:59 by hfg (213.216.199.XXX)

Ladies and gentlemen what we have here is the good old "buuhuu we lost syndrome" ha ha ha.

#43 2007-03-23 19:54 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

Nakoz:

> You just piss me off, since it's always you.

Nice to hear this. And like I said before, learn to deal with it.

> So I can ping myself to 80ms and we
could have dje playing with 13ms.

Go on.

> So of your 15 hours/week, that's all
duel/2on2 on .pl-servers with 13ms?

You're doubly wrong. Not 13ms but 25ms and not all is duel/2on2.

> You never prac???? Who do you prac?

I prac sometimes. Mostly clans which agree to play on polish server (like SR lately) or late hour when I can get 39ms at wargamez. I play with 39+ only when I have no other choice.

> I'm presenting fact and quotes, you present bullshit.

As always.

> You're only making a fool out of yourself - again.

At your service.

> we don't have a nordic league where all
> who wants signs up, and all games is
> played on nordic servers.

Why don't you start one, then?

> I don't enjoy reroute to a spikey 45ms.

Neither do I. But who said the world should be perfect?

> you are a man that does what's best for yourself

You're right. I do what's best for myself and my team. In every and each case that means I want to have a fair game. And I'm proud of it.

Any more doubts I could straighten out for you?

#44 2007-03-23 23:25 by soma (134.130.50.XXX)

Elguapo must have been joking when he said:
"Maybe u should concider to take ping-issues a little less serious plast to avoid this endless (?) ping-whine that follows so many games vs swe-clans."

He simply cannot be serious. It's not possible.
Most Swedish clans refuse to play anywhere south/east/west of Denmark and to me that's like Portuguese players insisting to play no further north than Spain. Just because Poles, Portuguese, Irish and a couple of others have shitty pings on Wargamez + further north it doesn't necessarily mean that they have "Kurwa connections" and it also doesn't justify any "why should we compensate for THEIR sucky connections". Non-Scandinavian clans just tend to do Scandinavian clans the favour of playing their games in Scandinavia. And it's a favour, not a golden rule, so stop taking it for granted and being such pussies when it comes to having ping 39 or 52 once in a while.

I'm not trying to defend anyone here. I just find it very hard not to agree with plast and don't really see any basis for a discussion.

over and out.

#45 2007-03-24 00:34 by murdoc (84.245.9.XXX)

lol, long time no see.

SR haven't whined about ping last 4/5 months, we are happy if we even get a game. All our nqr10 games we had 15, 7, 17, 12, 4, 14 ms Disadvantage, did it change outcome? No it didn't. Did it save alot of whine, frustration and time? yes it did. So stop the whine and just get your game going!

#46 2007-03-24 03:51 by Elguapo (81.170.235.XXX)

Of course im serious soma. Why shouldnt i be? I would never joke about something important as quake! my point is just simple: its a fucking game, its not (i hope) ur life that matters, so plz, take qw as the game it is, if its getting to serious its loosing its charm, in my opinion.

I rather dont play at all comparing to play a game with this massive ping-whine. Dont know if rules arent clear enough or where the error is to be found, but as nakoz said, it would be more fun to play in a league without ping-whine at all. Ping doesnt win games, players does. look at players like squeeze from canada, 150 ping, NEVER whines and still owns.

Anyways, qw is just a game, ping is just a small part of it, its suppose to be fun, so if you dont like how its done, dont play. And I am really serious, soma and plast, about my quote about ping, who the fuck cares, just play and be happy, if u dont like to play vs swe-clans, then fkn dont do it. Its simple as that, I gladly play vs "kurwa-clans", but just as long as they dont start the whine, as in case of this game, just zzz.

quake quake quake, computer game, take it ez, breath, dont take it to serious, plz. <3

#47 2007-03-24 05:08 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

So here we've got, after forty posts the final arguments finaly have been brought up. "It's just a game". "Ping doesn't win games". Frankly, I "enjoy" this part most.

Sure it is just a game. No one denies it. Why would anyone.

So, if that's just a game, why can't you ever agree to play on server where I got better ping than you? Can't you accept ping 50 while I got 25? Ping doesn't win games, players do, so I'm sure you could handle that. Why do you keep whining when I ask you for rerouting/minping when we play on server where you got better ping? Ping doesn't matter, it's just a game, so why do you care to whine when asked to reroute? Next time just calm down. It's just a game. Ping doesn't win games. You just want to play. So reroute or come to server I choose and we'll start the game in 15 seconds. You will be happy and so will I. YES, it's just that simple.

Soma's got the point, you act like "we-always-deserve-lowest-ping" 'rule' for you is something obvious. Like it's been granted you by god, allah or whoever you worship out there. The truth may be brutal - it hasn't.

I may be out for a weekend so here you got some points to rethink about:
1. you had better pings than we did,
2. nevertheless you kept whining for better pings for yourselves before the game had even started,
3. you were defated while playing in better conditions,
4. nevertheless you still whine after the game,
5. and now you dare to tell me "it's just a game".

Man, you don't even know how hypocrytical you sound. Get some fresh air for your own good.

#48 2007-03-25 13:36 by Mille (62.20.218.XXX)

You still don't get it. It wasn't the 39ms, it was the spikes. Are you stupid? I wouldn't care to play with 39ms stable, but I just think it's shitty to force me to reroute into spikes.

It's just a game, right? and supposed to be fun, I think it went too far when you forced me to play at the worst possible conditions.

#49 2007-03-25 17:00 by plast (83.13.196.XXX)

You still don't get it. It wasn't the 39ms, it was the spikes. Are you stupid? I wouldn't care to play with 39ms stable, but I just think it's shitty to force me to reroute into spikes.

It's just a game, right? and supposed to be fun, I think it went too far when you forced me to play at the worst possible conditions.

#50 2007-03-27 12:57 by torrboll (217.211.80.XXX)

ping communism ftw

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