We aim to get EQL2 up and running asap and I'd like to share some of my personal
thoughts regarding a few changes. This is by no means anything official, this is
just a few ideas that I have and we want some feedback.
Some players find the minping rule unfair,players that are used to a low ping
now have to play with a high minping against teams that are used to high pings.
I understand their point and I see no other way to make this more fair then to
split some divisions pingwice, tho not all divisions are large enough to
I think maybe we rushed the big three (tb3) only decision a bit, imho five maps
would be more interesting. The two new maps could be decided by a vote, each
team could get one vote that is kept secret until a voting time expires. And why
not different maps in different division?
With splitted divisions there will be fewer matches, unless each team play
against all other teams twice. To make this more interesting a home and away
system could be used. The team with home map advantage may pick the third map
instead of tossing tb3 maps like now. I see no good reason that the third map
has to be one of tb3.
Obviously a playoff for each division would be funny, but there's a few issues
that needs to be discussed first. Shall teams be able to qualify for higher
divisions at all or shall admin simply move teams? Maybe playoff that qualifies
two teams to move up and automaticly move down the two last teams in each
division? And what about home map advantage in the playoff for the better ranked
team in each playoff match, like in the Swedish hockey league ;)? Might make the
non playoff matches more interesting or?
#12005-11-25 02:34 by lol term
U cant split division...
Like the name of this league say: Europen quakeworld league. So if someone
Signup have to face fact to play vs players who dont have 13ms everywhere. So
clans who dont agrea to play in "europen quakeworld league" should make thair
own league "13ms quakeworld league" that will resolve all problems. thx.
#22005-11-25 02:41 by lol term
home and away games :)) buahahah tell me for example: we got clan from cz. and
clan from fin. but routing is so smart that cz.ppl got ping 120 at fin swerwer,
But fin.ppl got 50ms at cz.serwer. so u got two games: 13vs120ms and
but by term idea its fair. ok. thx. :)
#32005-11-25 02:45 by lol term
another great idea by term...
move down the two last teams in each division? (c) term
so another example. in this Eql season two last team atm are: Leftovers and
tell me what thay will do in div2?
zzz pliz start think ppl :)
#42005-11-25 02:47 by lol term
Plizzz we want nqr :(
#52005-11-25 06:51 by Diki
Div1 only tb3. This div is way to elite for shit like cmt4. This way games are
good and tight. Btw. is something changed with wargames or why i used to have
25ms there and now 40 :/
#62005-11-25 07:06 by fix
I dont think term ment pings pings with home/away system..wasnt it about the
maps? home team getting advantage to pick 2 maps of 3 to be played..if 5 map
system is used this will get even more interesting...
you could split the division in order to get more games by makeing ppl play each
other twice..but i dont its needed 'cause of the ping issue
atleast this season in div2 we havent got any problems with pings..even while
playing with .pl dudes :) 25-41 scale works just fine.
#72005-11-25 08:04 by Specci/Ari
imo split divisions are exactly what we need, who gives a shit about the name of
league as long as playing is fun which it isnt with above 40 pings :< also
that option about having home advantage and playing 2 matches vs each opponent
is also very considerable, gg Sassa!
#82005-11-25 08:43 by Hooraytio
the home/away matches is NOT about the server, its about picking the third map
as far as i can see.
learn to read and atleast be man enough to use realnick..
#92005-11-25 10:14 by HighlandeR
ping will always be an issue unless you change EQL into SWEQL.
>Some players find the minping rule unfair
nothing new and same wrong as it always been.
clans have different pings due to connection they have and geographic distance
between them, no rules will ever change that.
All you can do is 'hide' those differences by:
-pingwise split of divisions
where splitting divisions means changing EQL into SWEQL, PLQL, RUQL, DEQL, etc,
there's not much enugh clans in each country (except fin/swe) to do that.
5 maps is fine, but dont change the additional 2 maps every season.
there's was cmt3/4 in previous nqr -> take'em back to the map pool.
Learning new maps each season isnt fun a t all.
there's no such thing as being used to high ping -> it's a typicall bullshit
forced by lowpingers.
#102005-11-25 11:08 by Mursu
Ye maybe not "Used to High ping" but those who always play with 13 ms do suffer
from 40 :(
But its not 40 in all of these games and its not completely unplayable either :)
#112005-11-25 11:12 by Oho
I think vote is best thing to pick new maps.. then it`s fair..
#122005-11-25 11:26 by Sassa
well voting for 3 maps might do it and rank them!
splitting the divs into A/B would be good for div 3 and 4 maybe?
and maybe then have 2 games with the away/home system as u said term?
#132005-11-25 11:32 by Specci/Ari
sassa: more excellent ideas from you :D ass licking at its finest
#142005-11-25 11:35 by Samgorod
Finally somebody does something for this anoying ping issue. Way to go EQL crew!
Hooooooraaaaayyyyyy! This is something that NQR never did. (althought it was
otherwise good league...)
#152005-11-25 11:35 by Diki
haha what i have wroten.. it was too early for me. Well.... just tried to say
that tb3 is best for div1. :)
#162005-11-25 12:10 by ok98
The div1 teams should be able to vote on "No more maps" "cmt3" "cmt4" or
someting else. If more than 50% want "no more maps" its tb3 fore eql2 div1. I
think this would be fair.
#172005-11-25 12:25 by mipa
only div1 should play tb3? all the noobs has to learn new shitmaps every season
just cause nobody cares about them for their lack of skill in quake?
and about the ping.. if 10 clans in a div and 1 of them is polish. the polish
clan demands minping to each game and all games are 45vs45 ping. other clans
play 8 games with 13ping in a row so the "getting used to high ping" should get
you an advantage here. at least for me the game feels very much different when
pinging 3 or 4 times higher than the normal
#182005-11-25 12:42 by bambuz
it could be done in two rounds so that gimmickery is minimized, ie that in the
end there's only a few choices left.
#192005-11-25 13:16 by HighlandeR
mipa-> certainly ping 13 feels very much different than ping 45, noone is
but 45ms is 45ms no matter how often you play it
just becuase you feel it being worse than 13ms you had last game doesnt make it
an adventage for other team.
as i said before, either you agree to play with higher ping either you change
eql to sweql, fiql etc.
there's no 3rd way
>if 10 clans in a div and 1 of them is polish.
you are forgetting one thing
poles dont ping 45 in poland.
we ping ~25 in pl (some 13, some over 30)
so the 45ms is the ping we suffer to play with against swe/fin/other clans
#202005-11-25 13:56 by plast
sorry term, but i havent read more bullshits since long time now... IM USED TO
25 : PLAY ALL GAMES IN POLAND? this is so stupid and retarded thinking...
we dont need our own POLISH DIVSION EQL, we have our own POLISH QW CLAN LEAGUE
where we play with pings 13-26 (there are some exceptions), so basically
spliting it by ping will mean END of EQL and possibly end of QW scene as it
i personally am not interested in playing 13-52 vs 40-60, it's SO BULLSHIT
you're used to it and we're used to 40+
making 'nordic division' and 'the rest' division is also very stupid, 5 clans
divsions? rotfl. just make your own nordic league, but don't name it EUROPEAN
quake league, and you may be sure i won't sign up
someone has to told you all of that, cause highlander is just too polite, you
have to FINALLY UNDERSTAND you don't have EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to play as pure lpb
and yes, you can do what you want
the other ideas arent very good - IMHO
maps should be scene decision, but i personnally dont like to play on maps which
i even dont have on hdd just to spawn and lost 20 minutes, and i dont have time
to learn new maps, i like playing the standards when i only got time to play.
tb3 is standard, cmt3/4 grim schloss e3m7 and other eXmY arent (maybe they are
home/away system with tossing third map from bigger mappool is just bad for the
same reason imho, thats TOO BIG advantage
playoff/qualification games are OK, but admin decisions are also OK, just use
both of these ideas wisely and its gonna be OK
#212005-11-25 13:57 by spoink
split divs because of pings?
thats the most fucked up thing ive ever heard.sorry thats just hilarious...:(
#222005-11-25 13:57 by konk
agreed with HighlandeR...we(portugese) are some of the ones forced to play with
high pings because we have bad connections to any country outside Portugal but
in Portuguese servers we play with 20~ ping. So its a constant disadvantage for
us playing any games on EQL since there's no PT clans on our division.
Theres one thing i dont understand tho...is how can't u have fun playing qw with
more then 40 ms...well i can just speak for myself but i enjoy playing it even
with ping 100 if needed.
This is called playing for FUN! Some of u guys take it to seriously as if u were
gonna win a fuckin gold cup!
#232005-11-25 14:31 by Hooraytio
its ot fun to run around and get pl attacks so that u drop into the lava trying
to jump over it, or beeing lagkilled when u have 200/rl.
furthermore it really sucks loosing to clans that u would normally win just
because you had to play a sorry ass 80ms game in some galaxy far far away..
this comes down to what you think is funny, if you think playing a match where
even both clans have 100ms fine, but dont expect everyone to think likewise.
And about maps. Why not play tb3? We have tried to play cmt, exmy and some other
maps, but as soon as you start playing ladder games or practice everyone goes
TB3 TB3. whats the idea to learn new maps all the time and play them in an
official game like 4 times? Its not fun to play 20 mins ffa instead of playing
tb3 and get some real teamplay out of it.
Go play some new games if you want new maps, i think that the qw map-pool was
decided a long time ago and this cmt bullshit and other maps was just a short
period of lameness that have past by now...
#242005-11-25 15:49 by Sassa
so lets get to some conclusion around this ping issue..
Is the system we got now good?
In NQR they had divided the divs into A/B and i really dont recall any1 saying
it was bad like u guys are doing right now!
We dont got the same minping system as NQR had but is it working good for u
For what I know so far in this eql we have had only 1 incident with ping and I
think i resolved it pretty good. or what do u d2/3tk guys think about the
decision in that game? it was fair right?
#252005-11-25 16:22 by Specci/Ari
hmm, it seems that scandinavians want the divisions to be splitted so why the
hell not, at least this is my conclusion based on many finnish qw-players
opinions, if we dont want to play vs middle-european team with high pings why
should we? and the name-problem is solved by naming divs geographically,
nordic-division and middle-european division, and we still can call this
European Quake League. Just split the divisions please. And I still agree with
Sassa with that home-advantage-system, it brings something new to this game. And
Plast, how can you say that split-divisions bring end to the QW-scene? for how
often you play versus finnish clans for example unless it is some "mandatory"
game like ones EQL? it
#262005-11-25 16:46 by Hooraytio
exactly, its not like i want to play 45-80ms games unless i have to.
allthough some middle-euro clans can play at wargamez or splatter and get a
descent ping for both teams. I enjoy playing vs polish clan DC since they ping
good to wargamez, but i dont really want to play clans_of_devils_ms on a regular
#272005-11-25 16:55 by Sassa
its not really regualar basis to play 1-2 times / season?
and on EA (splatter) its not that big diff to play with ping 40..
splitting up the groups will not be a big deal really.. just group A/B but there
will stil be a qualifying round after the season involving clans from both A and
B so they still got to play vs each other.. for div1 and 2 I dont think we need
to change it to A/B, but maybe for 3 and 4.
If u dont remember, NQR had the same system in the last season they run..
#282005-11-25 16:58 by B1aze
>how often you play versus finnish clans
>how can you say that split-divisions bring end to the QW-scene?
poles can play only vs poles in this case, russians vs russians. clans with
players from many contries like dk, ru, nl, pl, uk and so on.
nowadays they all can play vs each other.
if u wanna to play vs .fi with 12ms just don't sign up EQL. But i think its not
very good decision.
Yes, i wonder how poles can have so bad connection.
Look at this map: http://map-site.narod.ru/evropa-2.j
Most .ru players from Moscow(Russia) have 52ms on wargamez, but most poles have
52-58 here. Hm. Poland 3,4 times closer to Denmark. And i use adsl, some of my
friends have 39 on wargamez. They use lan connection.
But it is not a reason for banning these players from eql.
And, of course, it will be good to have 2 new maps in mappool. Just vote. May be
its need votes for every division. Like div1 tb3 only, div5 tb3 only, div2-3-4 -
tb3, cmt3, e2m2. Its to fun to play these maps. And you can build your tp very
fast. For example i can compare cmt3 tactic with dm3. Its very close.
Sorry for my english.
#292005-11-25 17:38 by ez
I want to see schloss in competitive play.
#302005-11-25 17:46 by Avenger
omg! u all sux :)
split division? moust stiupid idea i ever heard.
div1 normal tb3
why u want make other rules for lower div? If u dont have what to do u should go
change your bicycle color on pink and write on it "pussy".
all guys who think that we are use to 40+pings are idiots. (srry but its
Swe/fin clans demange to play on thair serwers. Guess we should demand same for
Like fix said in this eql he didnt get any ping problems.
Best solution is minping 38.5 no other way to make "EQL, NQR" etc.
U can always make rule: Only for fin and swe:)
Yeah and sorry for my english. I hope everyone get the point :)
#312005-11-25 17:54 by plast
Hooraytio: "furthermore it really sucks loosing to clans that u would normally
win just because you had to play a sorry ass 80ms game in some galaxy far far
It sure iz, I'm pretty sure we would have won all eql games that we lost if
they'd been played with equal LOW pings (13-26), but I know I can't do anything
about it. I totally agree about maps tho.
Sassa: "Is the system we got now good?"
It's not ideal. The better system (IMHO) would be something like that: 'The
value for the minping must not be higher than 50 unless both teams agree
otherwise. The idea is to get average pings most equal. The order should be like
that: 1. most equal server, 2. rerouting to get avg pings equal, 3. minping of
max value 50 if neccessary.'
"We dont got the same minping system as NQR had but is it working good for u
It's doing what it's supposed to do, but I still think the changes are
neccessary. Simply because if one team has avg ping 13 and the other has one
player with 13 and three with 50 it forces them to play like that, cause they
cant set minping higher than 13 (following current rules). That's why I think
it's not ideal.
"what do u d2/3tk guys think about the decision in that game? it was fair
It's retarded that two Polish clans had to fight @ wargamez (only last game in
Poland + rerouting cause of ONE foreigner in 3tk) but yes, average ping was
equal and I can't say a word that it wasn't fair.
I play against Finnish clan when there is no less pingwhine opponent available
and we're looking for prac/ladder.
"Most .ru players from Moscow(Russia) have 52ms on wargamez, but most poles have
52-58 here. Hm. Poland 3,4 times closer to Denmark. And i use adsl, some of my
friends have 39 on wargamez. They use lan connection."
That's not true. More than half of Poles have not bad connection to wargamez
(mostly ~39, max 50), but not @ 18 CET, but @ 22-23 CET. It's not my fault that
Scandinavians prefer to play 20 CET and they all are going to work at 5 AM
theirs time. I always give them the choice: later with lowers pings or earlier
but higher pings.
"div2-3-4 - tb3, cmt3, e2m2. Its to fun to play these maps"
For you perhaps, I don't have e2m2 on hdd even now and I played on it maybe 3
times (in NQR). On maps I fully agree with Hooraytio.
#322005-11-25 17:55 by Hooraytio
god damnit, fix that url 8)
#332005-11-25 17:59 by Term
Plast et al, I wrote "some players", personally I think the current minping rule
(that I made) is the best alternative. And I don't think 40ms is a problem, it
is when players have ~60ms in half of theire matches, like some teams in
#342005-11-25 18:03 by Hooraytio
besides, its not the ping that is the problem, its the massive PL attacks that
comes with it.
sometimes i have played vs clans with 80ms and did fine cuz of the lack of PL,
but when 25-30 PL kicks in there is only so much u can do...
#352005-11-25 19:01 by sassa
horatio ist some damn polish servers that u get the pl attacks, i do 2 but then
choose another pl server instead!!! or ea(splatter)?
#362005-11-25 19:20 by HighlandeR
no point for setting max minping value
if it's neccessry to set minping 90 (like rot from .pt against dot from .ru) so
more maps is fine especially when it comes to play best of 7.
and best of 7 is the way to play final games (like playoffs) as it reduces 'luck
factor' :D and basicly gives more games to enjoy for specs :D
#372005-11-25 19:57 by Term
Yes there should be a "tb3 only" option and the idea with home/away matches is
obviously usless with only 3 maps. I don't expect anyone that only likes tb3 to
like the idea at all. On the contrary, the idea will probably force some
tb3-only-clans to play other maps more frequently, unlike in NQR and that might
make divisions more even.
#382005-11-25 20:20 by murdoc
nl alot of players??? lol there are like 10 left
#392005-11-25 20:21 by Hooraytio
sorry but best of 7 maps is over 2 hours, and i dont think most players want to
play that many maps in a row
#402005-11-25 20:57 by HighlandeR
Erm, sorry, i meant best of 5 :D
so that you can have all 5 maps played
#412005-11-25 21:09 by Hooraytio
hehe, thats more reasonable
#422005-11-25 21:37 by plast
bestof5 omg, some clans (like mny) have problems to play their bestof3 matches,
for ex. they've played vs zoo for 3 days (1 map per day), tho I'm not sure if
they already ended it :)
anyway: more maps per match means earlier start, earlier start means worse ping,
worse ping means more whine...
and bestof5 would be fun only when you got 5 or more maps, but I prefer tb3,
#432005-11-25 21:43 by HighlandeR
bo3 for group games are fine
but playoffs should be bo5 with 5 maps in the pool, so that no map is being
#442005-11-25 22:03 by Zaq
i do indeed believe that there is a thing such as beeing used to ping, i still
remember when i was on a 33.6 modem, and i was used to 140 i still played as
good as the 40 pinger because i was used to it. In my opinion its the same as
you force someone to go from fov 140 to fov 75 or, maybe sens 12 to sens 3, its
all about what you are used to.
anyways, more maps seems to be a good idea.
I dont really want split divisions, seems wrong.
i like the home/away match thing, but not in that way. The "visiting" have to
chose their map first, and then home team choses,but the third should still be a
election or something.
there, ive said what i think.
#452005-11-26 00:03 by siikah (div4)
First of all I'd like to suggest that you guys should shut the fuck up if you
don't have good suggestion, or at least a little more control of your temper
than a seven year old child. Just flaming someone who tries to make our (ONLY!)
4on4 tdm-tournament more enjoyable is so fucked up.
I don't think that the divisions should be split with ping in mind. I would
never the less really appreciate smaller divs where you could play each clan
twice, kinda makes the "daily shape" your clan is in less important. That
doesn't require a split though, but will make the seasons longer (which is a
Some countries have major problems when trying to play across the border, but
personally I haven't had any problems with that this season in division 4 at
least. Playing .dk with minping has worked out. On one occasion (dqm vs nnm) it
was REALLY bad, but that had nothing to do with the ping since we actually had
about 40 and no ploss. The problem was probably mintic on the server (oooh how I
wanted a rematch on a server with a proper setup...).
TWO MORE MAPS! Wohoo! Gimme!
If each division would have two personal maps that would require the moves of
clans between divisions to be made by the admins (if not the division final
would be on maps you've never seen ;)
#462005-11-26 00:03 by siikah
Hm. A lot of \n's there. Odd.
#472005-11-26 02:05 by vb
minping sux :<
#482005-11-26 04:26 by mipa
ok im not sure though but i THINK all the polish are startubg to get used to
high ping (and as a realist not as someone else), when playing all 10 games out
of 10 with 45ping it _MAY_ give u a somewhat some could call advantage when the
other 9 clans palys each other with 13 pings each. IF YOU DO NO NOT UNDERSTAND
MY POINT DO NOT POST (at me)
the trouble with home/away maps would be inactivity.. clan A challenges clan B
for about 15 weeks but doesnt seee them. then clan B comes in and challenges
them and claims that it is their prooperty to choose the map u
know................ ............... .............
#492005-11-26 10:07 by plast
your point is wrong, that 10 games with ping 45 during the season are like 2% of
all games played by particular polish player in that time, almost all of the
rest is played in poland: duels, 2on2s (very popular), mixes 4on4, and clan 4on4
vs other polish clan, only clan 4on4 vs foreign clan games are mainly played
abroad cause almost everyone thinks exactly like you. (proof? only 1 game from
our 8 games in current eql was played in poland, that was game vs Veterans, they
had ~40 in Poland, we rerouted, and everyone was happy (no minping), the other
clans either have 60+ in poland or do everything not to play on polish server
even if they have 40 there)
#502005-11-26 11:41 by B1aze
ok, mipa, some clans started to used practing. They played 30 games a week with
different pings and it give they some advantage when the other 9 clan played
only 1-2 game a week with ping 26 or 45.
So, please, make div with really active clans (div A) and div B with inactive.
#512005-11-26 11:54 by oh lala la la
oh dramaramamama rama
#522005-11-26 12:14 by Avenger
The truth is that ping 38 is playable, of coz its not 13 but if u got skill u
will not see muth diferent.
i never whining about ping/minping shit just always played, no mather about
pings. however 13vs50ms isnt fair so if some of clans want get fair ping. I
think 38vs50ms should be fine for everyone.
Mipa did u try play vs 38ms Fom? I didnt saw any diferent... thay are good and
thay win, u sux and u loos ping wont help u.
#532005-11-26 13:10 by Hooraytio
can you stop the personal abuse
#542005-11-26 18:22 by Willgurht
the real problem is that splatterworld servers feels lagged on 39ms. no idea if
it's HW / OS / imagination whatever. old qw.nl servers used to be ok with
Wargamez might be full during seasons (we only had ping problems with our games
when all wg servers were in use).
Some russian and polish servers feel ok, even tho some ploss might hit u at
split divisions: NO its EQL
maps: whatever, but e2m2tdm before e2m2 plz :P
#552005-11-26 19:00 by sassa
I have never felt the lagg on splatter as ur saying, use g2nQizmo, that might
#562005-11-27 14:19 by Hagge
there is so much bullshit in all the comments for this post that I'm just gonna
say one thing: YOU SUCK! :<
#572005-11-27 16:31 by Hooraytio
hagge: sluta irca b?rja spela..
#582005-11-27 17:01 by Eta-Beta
For those who whine: Term said it was 'some thoughts'. Not that it was new rules
for eql2. Don't comment if you don't have anything concrete to say. At least
he's trying. You're not.
#592005-11-27 17:09 by record
maps=clan leaders voting (tb3 only, cmt3, cmt4, e2m2, schloss, etc) k?
and stop this fucking 13ms whine :< im used to play with 25 ms in pl so dont
tell me that poles are used to 50...
whats wrong with ping 40 for fuck sake? unplayable or what? :<
#602005-11-27 17:26 by Hooraytio
ping is no problem when under 90ms as long as there is no pl spikes...
pl that makes all jumps, shots and moves totally fucked up is not playable...
#612005-11-27 18:07 by record
"no problem when under 90ms" horatio? :) hehe tell this to all 13ms whiners.
i mean ping ~40 and pl 0.
u got pl spikes? choose another server, use qizmo or something.
i have pl 0 at splatter/wargamez/xs and im playing for fun only and dont whine
about playing with ~50 ms :)
#622005-11-27 18:49 by Hooraytio
the pl i got cant be removed with qizmos, but i think its only temporarily
#632005-11-27 19:35 by Hooraytio's net admin
Sorry Hooraytio, it's permament.
#642005-11-27 23:40 by Hooraytio
ill get another isp then 8)
#652005-11-28 09:47 by Hooraytio's next isp admin
will get you whatever you do, whereever you go !
HA HA HA HA !
#662005-11-28 12:13 by Hooraytio
sorry evil net admin, but your evil plan has failed
now i have 13ms and 0pl again and forever =(
#672005-11-28 15:43 by Hooraytio's next isp admin
just wait for your next EQL game (HA HA HA HA HA!)
#682005-12-01 17:35 by Hooraytio
i dont have any more eql games this season so its a-ok
#692005-12-01 19:51 by Link
Wow, still debating about maps? How strange is that???!!! :)