Its crazy you have so many classic tdm maps that never even get thought of because of their age and its uk feel. Any UKpak, ukcldm, maps are excellent for tdm and always have been. Or exmxtdm maps. Stop being boring!

Its crazy you have so many classic tdm maps that never even get thought of because of their age and its uk feel. Any UKpak, ukcldm, maps are excellent for tdm and always have been. Or exmxtdm maps. Stop being boring!

In all fairness the qwnu server has been down since the 19th so lets give them some slack ;)

Be more patient! Just wait till yesterday.

"it's now the 23rd" btw, sorry my bad.

also SHANANIGANS!

Enough of this shit, we got a bigger problem at hand, in previous newspost it was said that signups would open at the 22nd of august, it's not the 23rd! I CALL SHANANIGANS!
The only reasonable thing to do now is to simply lay eql14 on ice and wait for the next season, GOOD JOB ADMINS!

#89
"And it must also be stated that two most popular maps of the kenya tourney will make it to EQL 15 to make the stable poll. Otherwise some clans will piss on it as usual."

What? This is again just forcing your shit to everyone else. Maps should be added if the league is even semipopular, people really like the idea of 1-2 maps added (and ofc like the maps), and really, one quickly done league is a bit hasty imo. And to decide before that league even starts that 2 maps will be added isn't really how you should introduce maps to people and make them eventually like them.

Seems like you don't really crasp the idea of not fucking up eql with too fast decicisions about other maps.

But IF EQL 14 is to be tb3 then the new tourney must be set for 100%. Otherwise all this talk may look as stalling for time by some ppl.
And it must also be stated that two most popular maps of the kenya tourney will make it to EQL 15 to make the stable poll. Otherwise some clans will piss on it as usual.
The above consitions must be met to make it all reasonable and well thought-out. If you're not going to make it that way... Ten it's useless and don't even bother

The reason why i mentioned EQL as a stakeholder for it is that it is something that is already up and running. I thought it's just using the same formula and putting the custom map twist on it and let it run.
Just trying to make most of it.

Thats not the problem im talking about para.

Personally I would urge anyone interested in custom maps to start thinking about a custom map tournament. I dont really see the need for it to be an EQL-spinoff.

I can provide assistance and be an aide in many QW-related projects as longs as my skills/time lets me.
This game is too awesome to die.

We know what the problem is. We don't know why it takes time :)

The problem has been argued back and forth in great detail here.

I would have to agree with Para on this. Right now EQL is the only competitive arena left for qw and we all know TB3 is a formula that has always worked in the past. I know there are players who really want to diversify and expand by adding more maps to the pool. Trying to force this on EQL doesn't seem like the right thing to do in my opinion. As some people have already mentioned, I also recommend giving this a try in a new qw league where the focus lies on custom maps.

I'm wondering something. Why is it not possible for EQL to start a spinoff league based on custom maps (possibly including TB3 to ensure it doesn't scare away too many players). If this is too much of a workload for the current admins, then I'm sure the pro-custom players (Kloze & co.) can jump in take some responsibility there.

We are actually trying to solve this issue and we are not annoying you players on purpose. If you had some insight you would know what the problem is and why it takes time.

Thanks.

+1 to #79

Also, this is the chance to try to make EQL15 with 5 maps quite properly. You have lots of time, but this doesn't mean you should leave it few weeks before EQL15, that would be fail again. Best to start right now. Or the custom maps tourney.

What Rikoll said in comment #79 is what i am and many others have been thinking of lately.I dont think EQL is the place to introduce new maps atleast not now.

Rikoll for president!

The solution:

Announce this season as TB3. The sooner the better.

Most of the whine will perish. Even the people pro kenya maps (me included) are against this way of introducing new maps, as it has failed it's purpose too many times before. Your indecision only splits the community more than needed. This would also ensure the cycle for tb3/kenya seasons that the pro kenyas (kenya season winter -> spring) want, can be fulfilled. And of course the tb3-lovers will be happy for another season without any kenyas.

You shouldn't give up on your ambitions to introduce more maps into your tourney, but I do think you should give up this approach to achieve it.

For us who wants more maps to play 4on4 on:

Not everyone likes the same. We must admit that a slight majority of the people here don't want to play any additional maps over tb3. Is this, EQL, really the right arena to try to push forth our will?

For me the best option would obviously be to run a kenya only tourney simultaniously with EQL, something along the lines of 5/7 maps (f.ex: ctl5, ctl6, naughty, cmt3, cmt4, cmt1b, bay12). If the will is strong enough to play new maps, it shouldn't cost us that much effort to make this happen? If this turns out successful, maybe a majority eventually wants to have more maps in EQL as well.

If we can't get a tourney going, or it turns into a disaster, then maybe the will to play new maps aren't as strong as we try to give the impression of here.

I think should be more aware of our own responsibility to introduce new maps we want to the scene, rather than relying on EQL admins with limited time to do the right thing.

i have no interest in 'updates' like this. just decide *anything*. give us the vote already... posts like this add nothing to the table and only prolong the whining.

get people interested in the league and above all involved. but you have to give some interesting choices first, there won't be any useful feedback unless you make some tough choices first.

these vague annoucnements with a couple of hints what might eventually happen.. some day... if there's interest.. or maybe the opposite will happen.. or nothing at all..
it's not getting me interested anymore.
/me disappointed

zZZzzz???!? boring.... gief tb3 please.

If you want to play custom maps make a custom tourney.

thx!

Some people speak as if these maps HAVE to be included now or else we're doomed and there's no other option.

Make a long term roadmap instead and you're more likely to get something GOOD out of it.

"We already have 6000 maps in the archive, we really need more? Noone's pissing on the map makers, but just because there are some interested parties still making maps doesn't mean we should play them if we don't like them" - how come you already know that you dont like them/they suck? How many games have you played on them? Zero, Null, nothing. So pls... :))

Besides, they are also different from tb3 which is good for sure and may also bring new moves/strategies/experiences. It CAN'T be bad, can it?

But ofc I agree that a new tourney is needed. But now it;s a bit too late for that, it should have been announced in spring. I also agree that the regular tb3 EQL should usually start in autumn just to bring the scene out of summer hypersleep. But thats for some future editions I guess.

And I'm sure that new maps can be learnt easily and pretty fast: the learning curve is quick in the beginning and each team would start from minimum knowledge level (which may also be good). You will learn maps in no time, the real knowledge will come ofc later when some of the them are put in the pool once and for all. Thats what the admins wanted from the beginning and changing it now when at least some of the maps have got some interest would be pretty inappropriate imho.

btw im totally agree with Muff1n

"And it's so discouraging for map makers to have their maps pissed on." let me quote Muff1n:
"#60 Muff1n - 2011-08-10 13:45 (83.182.5.XXX)
Here pektopah. It would be cool if my maps get into next eql, but.. What is needed is a custom tourney 2 months before the official eql with the maps that are considered to be played in eql. After the tourney make a poll etc, there will almost certainly be some teams that wont participate in the custom tourney, that only means they need to practice more when the maps are announced. I cant think of another way to introduce new maps :/"
:) :) :)

"TB3 lovers have their shot, why wouldnt kenya lovers have it too? And it's so discouraging for map makers to have their maps pissed on. How can that scene ever recover? It all brings to stagnation and so."

We already have 6000 maps in the archive, we really need more? Noone's pissing on the map makers, but just because there are some interested parties still making maps doesn't mean we should play them if we don't like them.

And who says kenya lovers don't get their shot? There has been custom maps in many 4on4 seasons and even had their own tournaments... Try that again instead.

Also I think dm2 and e1m2 are excellent 4on4 maps. they both require lots of teamplay and strategy and play well. All 3 maps are very different and play differently. But they all work well.that's why those were the chosen maps out of SOOO MANY that used to be played many many years ago.

There actually was a time where most clans had their own episode map as home ground. But it eventually lost interest with the generel population and clans and tournaments started zero'ing in on TB3 maps. It's like not like dm2/dm3/e1m2 took precedence over the other maps back then... they were just the maps that played the best! As they are today.

"DM2 and E1M2 are good because we have years and years of routine there." - true that.
"Im not sure when a majority of the remaining players would find the time to build up an even remotely good routine on new maps" - so lets fossilize even more get into stagnation and not learn anything new? No new tactics, no new moves, no new routine? Is that really the way you want it? So why did you impose those kenya maps in every even season?

Sooo inconsistent... :/

#67 DM2 and E1M2 are good because we have years and years of routine there. Im not sure when a majority of the remaining players would find the time to build up an even remotely good routine on new maps.

#69 The players quitting because of the lack of new 4on4 maps could probably be counted on one hand. That goes for the number of players starting because of new maps as well. The players who quit from 1997 to 2010 quit because of new games or lack of time basically.

TB3 lovers have their shot, why wouldnt kenya lovers have it too? And it's so discouraging for map makers to have their maps pissed on. How can that scene ever recover? It all brings to stagnation and so.
Without new ideas we would never have antilag for ecample. And only a complete retard may state that is ruined the scene: it actually brought players together on many servers they hadnt used to play before.
This is so lame, such behaviour tends to throw aside ppl from this great game.

I think i've to change my opinion, it's not fair that these... handicapped people have to learn new maps, I suppose it's too much asked for!

ParadokS I didn't know it was all about whether the maps are good or not, if you think like that I suggest we remove DM2 and E1M2 straight away since they're not "solid" maps what-so-ever.

haha new eql, new kenya maps new kenya zealots. extremly lame seriously. crea kenya tournament to find out wich kenya is the best, the sooner the better. or if you really want to add kenya maps, add the last 2: cmt1b cmt4. they sux i know, so create a kenya tourney XD

yeah im not against having tb5... if there were 2 good solid maps extra.. but there AREN't!!

All you have is bunch of random maps where you roll a dice on what maps to include.

We are all for a TB5 pool. if the tb5 core is solid.. but there isn't a solid tb5 core. And it won't come NOW because you take 2 random maps in. There is only the long way around and that is putting in the legwork of a custom tourney or something else to find out what custom maps are really good for 4on4. And try to run with them for a few seasons in main EQL.

It's not a good idea to use EQL as it is now... for experimenting with random kenyas.

"BUT the matches clans inbetween will be messed up since there its all about who can prac those new maps most. With TB3 everyone has the experience on those maps and it's more even playing field."

Actually the difference in experience between top clans and new clans/players (if there are any) is arguably greater on tb3 than it is on kenya, so one could argue that in reality, it is kenya maps that provide the most even playing field, not tb3. If it really is an even playing field you want above all else (and I'm not suggesting it should be), then one could argue that we should remove tb3 from the map pool.

Also, I personally don't really see how it is 'messed up' for clans to get stronger the more they prac. Just seems like common sense to me, clans practicing to improve, it's not like some kind of evil cheat they are using :)

"they know those maps won't be returning the next season where as tb3 will ALWAYS be a steady core"

And herein lies the problem. This is why people have been calling for a more stable map pool. Just look at duel tournaments, when ztndm3/aerowalk started being introduced there was a lot of whine, but those maps were stuck with and now seem to be accepted by the majority.

If EQL came out and said "maps X and Y will be in the pool for the next 2 years" then that would give more incentive for clans and players to develop their game on those maps. At the moment tb3 dominates so there is naturally more focus on that, you know if you put in hours on those maps they won't be wasted. So essentially the 'steady core' you talk of just needs to be expanded as it was for 1on1.

"People don't like kenyas..well because they don't like kenyas" - I coudnt laugh more at such "striking" an argument. "

Lets try again.
People don't like kenyas because:
-The 2 maps change every time
-Most people are really fine with tb3
-We are old farts who don't have time to prac as much anymore (and also opponents are rare and few). As you keep swiching the kenya maps, that adds to the problem, which offcourse means the quality of the games in kenya maps is a fat joke.
-Some think the maps aren't really that good. Could be the lack of prac in that map or it just might be not that good. Who knows.

Make kenya league on top of the eql, and keep eql tb3 for now. And if it seems that some particular kenya map or 2 will gain in popularity, then start adding maybe 1 kenya map to eql. Not before that.
And then don't swich the map every other season ffs.

I guess everyone with IQ level above a donkey's spotted that irony :)
Yeah, lets pracc less and kill the game eventually. Or lets only play dm3? What about that, that would be awesome!!

#59: Yes, but you must understand that QW activity is stagnating and the best thing to do is to actually support this stagnation by not forcing the clans to practice anything.

I mean, it shouldn't be that because EQL is the only league, tb3-only should be played. It should be the other damn way around - because EQL is the only league THEREFORE it shoud NOT be tb3-only.

Hm, the site ate my markup, first paragraph was actually marked with "irony" tags :)

I think it's pretty hilarious that in QW scene it's considered bad thing that the clans praccing most are doing well. In QW it's supposed to be that you should be able to just play those official matches and pwn some n00bs and then get the tittle.

If top clans don't have time to learn new maps how are they supposed to be good in them? And if less-skilled clans pracc hard these maps why they can't close the skill cap on these maps? I suppose i'm a bit stupid because I don't understand this logic.

"also because they know those maps won't be returning the next season where as tb3 will ALWAYS be a steady core." - thats the main obstacle imho.

Therefore, a stable tb5 is needed if we want more maps. And I know that including custom maps in EQL in order to make a stable tb5 map pool was was admins' main objective. Unfortunately, the maps were shuffled every even season and it failed in general.
So be consistent and dont fall back now

And btw pektopah, it's not that they are more pro kenya than you, the whole point is that lesser skilled clans will NOT be able to close the gap to the top clans, just by playing new maps against them. Skill difference is still just as big.

BUT the matches clans inbetween will be messed up since there its all about who can prac those new maps most. With TB3 everyone has the experience on those maps and it's more even playing field.

That's why the top clans don't take kenya maps seriously for 4on4.. they don't have time to learn these new maps and they won't play them as competetively... also because they know those maps won't be returning the next season where as tb3 will ALWAYS be a steady core.

I don't see any eql pro on the table.. and it seems eql pro is running half the time that eql is.. with much less games.. so it's not even close to the same thing... EQL now is the only game in town.

And yes, custom map tournaments/leauges... bring them on. Just as additions.

How come it may detororiate if there would be various tourneys that would cater for everyone's needs and expectations? There still would be tb3-only editions (EQL pro, one of the EQL regulars).
So thats a "wide of the mark" argument imho

Carapake+Hora+Darkki I don't understand what you guys are trying to say is it:

a.) Good clans are good in any random map
b.) Map knowledge is not important
c.) It doesn't mean anything if your opponent clan has played DM3 for 10 years and you just 1 year

It actually sounds like you're much more pro kenya than me.

As long as EQL is the only game in town, don't deterioate it with random maps that will make the tournament less competetive and interesting. Stick with what works imo.

#49 - the more QW action, the better :))
New leagues are always welcome! (especially TDM)

So i hope that a new kenya tourney is imminent and it will involve at least 70% of the scene. It would be great to have both EQL pro (only tb3) and EQL kenya running in the mid-season between EQL regulars, wouldnt it?
But my opinion is that for the last time EQL 14 should include custom maps, hopefully new ones just to warm ppl up to them.

#47 & #48
Really not enough with one regular season of tb3 only and eql:pro with same system? And capslock wount help you btw :)

And we HAVE gave them a chance.. some of the custom maps have been played in many seasons... and they have mostly been deemed unworthy after many official games. So don't give us that argument that we are so afraid of new things. It's just not as easy as putting new stuff into the tournament when we only have 1.

And again and again the overall consensus is .... DROP KENYAS IN EQL... TB3 ONLY PLEASE... CREATE YOUR OWN KENYA LEAGUE TO TEST NEW MAPS.

If you wan't new maps in EQL it HAS to be introduced the right way. It's a delicate proccess. Can't just make some new map and add it because you think it looks nice.
If you don't wanna do the legwork then accept the fact it shouldn't be introduced in this formal arena.

I hear from admins and players all around the same arguments... people want and will accept tb3 only. It's the official standard... if and when custom maps will be introduced it has to be good solid maps and they have to be tested to some degree... and a custom tournament is fine.