so stev and roo should get ban's! actually they have those already, since playing in 2 different clans in one season is prohibited according to rules..

#101 You can change team during regular season if admins approve. Rules only prohibit two teams at the same time.

so this means that this clan of a joke CBK can continue playing and those players may play in eql?

CBK can continue playing, the banned players cannot. Since they won't have enough members to play without them, they have to go out and do some recruiting.

cBK should carry on imo. However all results so far should be wiped, as currently all points so far have been won breaking EQL rules. Then they should restart their campaign with fresh team.

cbk will carry on as i and a few others joined the team to help keep the remaining players active in the scene. prac anyone? =)

Rille is here to save the day. Nice!

To be honest, I was quite surprised to read about this hassle here and where you've come to with all that "organization" and "fairness" stuff. I mean, it's no crime to change your nick, to some degree anonymity should be possible on the interwebs. Also, if someone desires to play in a team below his "usual skill level" by playing with kankerlamerpoep settings, well, fine, why not? I'm pretty sure that he thought some players wouldn't see it this way and just not let him do it, so it might be a good idea to "fake". The reason why this didn't work in the end, appears to be that the team didn't play that poorly after all and others became suspicious.
A few days ago I watched some games and there was some talk about "ohh you own your division!" or "misplaced clan!" and stuff like that. Can't the players take a serious bashing anymore, or what is that all about? It seems almost as if some players are under the impression that they have some sort of claim that they only meet clans that are beatable, or at least give them a "close game". I've never been a big fan of that divisional system because there will always be discussions on how teams' skills are judged and placed. Don't get me wrong, when I played, of course I enjoyed close games a lot more than getting raped or raping much weaker teams that were no real challenge. By manually forcing close games, people develop a claim to preferably only play in those games and moan when they have no chance. Imagine you drink coke or beer all day, every day. After a few days you will no longer enjoy it that much. However, when you drank water only and worked hard, then a beer at the end of the day tastes wonderful, because it is not "normal", it's "special". An inflation of "good games" will make "good games" less valuable and appreciated and uneven games may cause useless drama - in my opinion.

to clarify im not faking at all for cbk; only just found out the team existed today!.. also only found out about this drama today! imo marvel should be banned for 1 season as per any other faker.. the fact he didnt even try when he was playing for this team (unlike when riker faked) surely should back this up further and the fact he didnt play for the other team he was in (unlike riker) should further conclude this.

also you cant compare skill of diki and marv para as their connections are too different.

bleh.


can i join cbk?

Faking is a little mischievous, but baring in mind the awesome players who have played in the low divisions like Fix, its
hardly a big coup to catch some guy playing with kangaroo settings and then hang him out to dry.
But it is entirely up to the admins if they want to ban someone from their league, it can be argued but when you have 5 unelected people running something, its not a democracy anyway so it will fall on deaf ears.

However on a more serious note, a bigger breach of trust and negligence has taken place.
Renzo a server admin, gave out the true IP addresses of the suspected fakers to the admins of eql, who subsequently went on
to give those ip addresses to quake players who asked for them.
This is bordering on the illegal and certainly taints the admin crew and Renzo far worse then some quakers who thought
it would be funny to play in division 3.
They must of known full well the possible dangers of giving out true IP's to angry quakers, who so bitter by losing a few
games or having no skill in general, subsequently go onto paste those IP's to other vigilantes and fuming low lifes hellbent on getting some revenge.
I don't even need to mention the consequences, its implied to anyone with a brain.

Renzo could easily of confirmed to the admins the ip matches without giving out the ACTUAL real ip address.
The admins could of confirmed to quake players who asked if the IP's matched without giving out the ACTUAL ip address.

The actual real IP address would mean nothing to anyone anyway, only if they wanted it for some sort of activity.
This means that playing quakeworld on servers administrated by Renzo or any of the EQL crew is a risk, and not safe like
it is intended to be. You have turned quakeworld into a corrupt police state run by monsters.

It's just funny seeing this "holier than thou" attitude coming from these people.

On another note, its also pretty fucking obvious the admins knew jack was marvel PRIOR to signing up to EQL, there is so
much to back that up, so that is basically entrapment.

Finally, responsibility comes with authority, and Data protection laws also exist as Renzo is fully aware. But I'm sure when he gave those IP's to the EQL admins, he
didn't think they would be so negligent.

When you Fakenick you expect to get kicked out and/or banned.
When you breach trust and basic data protection, you expect to have to resign (The EQL admin(s) who distributed sensitive, private information to other players, namely ip address).

Quotes from Renzo from 2008:

*(on keeping logs of ip addresses and giving them out)
--------------------
"It's not illegal (depending on the coutry) but actually service providers are required to do so. However giving those records out to someone else than officials (basically police force or similar) is."
--------------------------
"Don't worry, I have absolutely no intention of giving any people to access logs or giving them out to anyone (as it would be illegal here where I live in and I do live by the law). However fakers should die."
-----------------------------
Taken from Here:
http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2914

Yours faithfully,
James Pond

this is actually getting interesting, by all means plz continue for other 100comments :)

Agree with Fix :)
This is good stuff!

Illegality arguments are ridiculous.

That is all.

Fire it up! #110 comment was very piquant ! :)

So basically Marvel is the Jesus of the Quakeworld, and Renzo/admins represent Pontius Pilate?

History does repeat itself! :o

Faking is so lame.. How can one join a lowdivclan just to get some easyfrags? I hate it

lol'ed at "playing quake has become dangerous".
also when did fix fake in a lower division? i would be disappointed if that was actually true.

While I don't like the division system, it would be totally pointless to use it unless rules like these were enforced and using the right to be anonymous on the web as a case against the EQL crew is just ridiculous, especially when the rules states that you may not play for more than one team at once. That rule alone implicitly states that you are not anonymous when participating in EQL.

As for the EQL not being a "democracy", well...geez.

Marvel's faking project should obviously be punished with the 1 season ban, although I don't really see the need to ban for 2 seasons as he did actually PLAY any games for any other teams. Much like anupko for example was also signed for 2 teams but only played for one this season.

I know, I know.. the fact that marvel signed with 2 different nicks doesn't make his case stronger but still - let's be reasonable.

As for robocod's ban I don't really understand it. I don't think the evidence is clear enough. There are also a few other points to make here.

He did actually wanted to play in div2/div1 but marvel (under fakenick) and stev as well insisted on div3, so that's why he ended up there. Furhtermore even if he actually WAS this supposedly pesto guy, wasn't he a div3 player anyway?

Certainly he did not "fake" to try and play in a lower division and I think his ban is solely based on the back of marvel's misbehavior. AFAIK the team cbk has severed ties with marvel and recruited new members to try and remedy this debacle.

In the aftermath of this witch hunt, lets try and see reason. After all we are here to compete on fair terms and have fun - even if it has been tainted by yet another trollforce.

".. as he did _NOT_ actually PLAY.." doh :)

On a sidenote I think it would be in it's place if Itsinen gave a formal apology for making robocod's IP public. Robocod had valid points in his post, and itsininen's actions went directly against Renzo's wishes on how "privacy" on his QW servers should be handled. I reckon nothing actually illegal has happened, but it sure wasn't the best move.

Ya, not sure the evidence against robocod is enough, and even if he is pesto then I don't think his aim was to own in the lower divisions at all. Understandable the admins lumped the whole clan together as fakers looking to own a lower division, I think it's developed into a more complicated situation than they thought though, so a reconsideration would be appropriate.

"On another note, its also pretty fucking obvious the admins knew jack was marvel PRIOR to signing up to EQL, there is so
much to back that up, so that is basically entrapment."

Yeah we let him fake and then banned him. Sorry mate, you are wrong about that.

If he had no intention to fake in div 3 then presumably he made it absolutely clear to the admins who he was before the season started?

He insists he was not faking and I don't fully see the evidence contradicting it, at least not as much as in marvel's case.

Further more why should you inform admins about "fakenicking"?

This rule is only/mostly in place to prevent you from fakenicking and joining a lower division, not simply playing for 1 team, with a different nick than usual, in your proper division.

I simply fail to see the merits for banning robocod as well and still belief it happened in the turmoil of banning marvel.. robocod was simply collateral damage but there is still time to remedy this.

Great to see the discussion is back on!

@deus
Fix faked as ebloz for a clan kala or something like that? The player ebloz of course existed and played most of the games, but in some fix stepped in to do some rampage 8) Think they played in div2 or div3 a whole lot of season ago.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong 8)

Was it fix playing when ebloz got 100+ frags two maps in a row vs a very hot GTG? :)

@Hagge
He played two games as far as I remember, one being vs Insanity where they won 2:0 and the other vs GTG where they lost 1:2, think Kala played three games alltogether the other being without fix fakenicking vs FS, kala didn't reach playoffs since they only played 3 games or something. This was during NQR7 I think where division 1 was divided into group A and B, the same season that cMF won. Don't think it was ever proven or no one simply bothered to check if it was Fix fakenicking.

I remember the admins looking into it (I was part of the crew) but we couldn't prove it.

I think that robocod's reference to fix in div3 was just in reference to him playing in In A Blaze with his real nickname in season 11?

Thanks for the details nitram. I knew my memory wasn't completely lost 8) Was quite weird seeing ebloz going from bottomfragger to outperforming kala's two starplayers boome and masai :E My conclusion was just that he must've started playing like hell, naive as I am/was Be

Stev, you're bullshitting. I warned you who you were taking to your clan. I warned other people too and also the admins. Stop lying that you didn't know. It's ridiculous. Just admit.

I do not recall any conversation with you about anything in recent months. The only place I see you in irc logs from this year is a conversation between you and robocod about his namesake on the Amiga.

Perhaps you spoke to an IRC ghost (I time out often) or attempted to communicate with me in a public arena to which I was not paying attention. The fact of the matter is that no one approached me directly about this until a couple of days before they were removed.

Also, I took no one in to any clan. I was brought in as a 5th player to their already existing clan.

And I never said I didn't know, but I do not go around discussing unsubstantiated, damaging, rumours on public forums without proof, unlike you. I did, however, personally report suspicions to the admins long before action was taken.

In conclusion, shut your idiot mouth and think before you go around VERY PUBLICLY accusing people of being dishonest and complicit in cheating with absolutely no basis, especially in such a small community.

#127 fix: son I'm disappoint

totally agree with para 1 season ban and let robocod play!

"Renzo a server admin, gave out the true IP addresses of the suspected fakers to the admins of eql, who subsequently went on to give those ip addresses to quake players who asked for them.
This is bordering on the illegal and certainly taints the admin crew and Renzo far worse then some quakers who thought it would be funny to play in division 3."

Yes, I actually went and made sure an EQL admin gets the ip-address and setinfo stuff, so that he can be 100% certain (in which case he wasn't, and I just can't say "it is this way" and expect him to be 100% sure). I obviously failed to triple check the admin's view of sharing setinfo with IP-address to other people.

Note that noone else other than me has gained access to my server's logs, nor have I given them out to anyone. Only some specific IPs have been given to EQL admins on certain faking cases from over longer periods of time to make the hit "certain" (well, as "certain" as it can be).

----------

"This means that playing quakeworld on servers administrated by Renzo or any of the EQL crew is a risk, and not safe like
it is intended to be. You have turned quakeworld into a corrupt police state run by monsters."

They log the IP-addresses even on this site, not to mention qw.nu and its forums, so anyone with admin rights can check the IP from there too, and give it out if necessary. As I see it, at least one EQL admin is also an admin on the qw.nu, also two of them either run a server of their own or have access to a server or two, so they can dig up the info if needed.

If you think playing on a server that has active server admin and logging enabled (all the servers installed from mvdsv+ktx package have) makes quakeworld "corrupt police state run by monsters", feel free to find another server where you can fake freely and noone will ever know.

I think we can put the IP issue aside for now. Robocod was upset, with good reason and the fault can be placed on different people. At least Renzo was kind enough to clear a few things up and take some of the blame, now we just need Itsinen to step up as well.

We should also focus on setting marvel's ban to 1 season and clearing robocod so he can continue playing. The absence of Itsinen in this matter is cause for concern. It's been quite a while now since the "incident" and it has not really been resolved to my (and others) satisfaction. Hello EQL admins, where art thou??

"Fakenicking to get into a division where you don't belong"

This is a dumb rule. Shouldn't be up to the player to decide which division he belongs and it depends on the team as well.

Simply require players to submit all their previous nicknames. It's better for other players and spectators too.

HEY ADMINS! ParadokS does not agree with you! This is an urgent situation and requires immediate resolution!!

Duly noted.

Serious question though - what is happening with the played matches by CBK? We asked them to play us last night and they said they won't play EQL until the admins have decided and reset the games on the site. Every day that is wasted making that decision is a day the new CBK loses in trying to get their games done.

Ye! i asked dimman and he said he gonna talk to itsinen! we wanna play, btw ye we are full team again, its Me, Raz , Dominator, Rille and Saint. so ye we are rdy to go, but seems to be problem to wipe the games from the old teams .:/

I dont see rille in that team tho?

Seems like im not allowed in div3? =)
When have i ever played at div2 level?
Haha, i dont know why but would be fun to not be left out like this. *hugging admins* pwetty pwease lemme in =)

Well for starters I havent even seen a request to add Rille. Also, cbk made 3 additions wich is the max number. Perhaps an exception can be made in this case tho. Hold on.

a little bit off: when will you solve the f*cking scores?

Likewise. Can an admin please rule on cbk's Current team, and reset their scores. CBK as well as the rest of div3 are ready to move on. Thx

@Snow: There is only one person who could do (as in have access) that and he has been busy with final exam in school + work. Im bugging him about it as we speak! :)

@andro: Afaik that decision hasn't been made yet, but will be ASAP.

Correction to my last post: CBK games WILL be reset, decision is made. Just waiting for the one who can pull that one of too. Afaik, the site isn't so flexible so it can be done in a web interface but needs to be done manually. And hence the problem with access to the source :/

Stay tuned though.

Dimman, could u please alo add Rille to the cBK team? Yeah we have already reached the limit with 3 additions of new players, but this is also some special circumstances.

thanks..