I like this drama, it makes the upcoming finals a lot more intense. No more sissy friendly final games please! :)

If stating that tks should've been removed from div1 since they only played 1 game, and that SR should've gotten a wo against c88 aswell just like f0m did and thus end up at the 1st place then okay, consider me trolling.

How can you not see that this is at the very least an odd way for admins to handle WOs compared to how they've done previous seasons.
And what the fuck has that anything to do with "what goes on behind the drapes in div1".


Fuckit let me just ask u this instead:
Do you actually think that SR shouldn't have been awarded a WO for c88 game?

fuck that i can't edit :)

"well i know tvs/fusion was NOT split up solely to make FOM"

well i know tvs/fusion was split up solely to make FOM, but fact still is that tvs did break up, and you took best players from fusion so they were left with all the backup players and couldnt really continue and you took 5 top players from the scene in a team. so that's facts that 2 div0 teams are gone, and one new is here. And when you look at all the div1 players without teams, who either stopped playing, or joined div1, its obvious to me the players from fusion/tvs could have made 3-4 really good competetive div1 teams, that could compete with sr as well.

And sure you don't wanna respond to the fact that you took 12 points after season ended on walkovers, while no other team did it. Or that admins didn't talk to any other team about this before making their decisions to give you wo's. Cause that would just make you look a bit lame, eventhough you were just "following the rules".

And to say you were so active this season.. bwuahaha. We never turned down prac with you guys, and we also wanted to play the EQL with you.

when season ending u have 4 games played out of 16 with 12 points against our 7 games and 20 points. But you think it's cool that you end first in that ranking?


It was the same bs they did with shamoth fakenick exposure. Do some half ass investigation, take a rash decision without talking to any parties involved, then make it public and don't care about consequences or that the facts are wrong.

Hey I can't really say anything against this walkover party, since we could have been lame also and requested WO from all games we didn't play. and I guess the others teams could do the same.

With this small division this season and how it played out, I guess noone else in div1 even gave it a thought to do WO rape.

But that's your prerogative.

'We all know why you 1) didn't show any interest whatsoever in getting our last game played the last few days'

lol pascal.

we agreed to play on sunday, but ofc u couldnt play.. so martin asked the admins if we can delay it to tuesday, where striker couldnt. i think its pretty even, so dont come with this bullshit. thanks

@para #20:

This must be one of the more pathetical posts you've accomplished throughout the years.

"That's a joke. Fom was so inactive cause milton was in africa, xantom was moving etc. FOM was nowhere to be found for long time of this season."

See response to zero further down. If you still decide to refuse this, which you most likely will, I can show you irc logs so that we can get that silly assertion sorted out.

"So yes, it IS a giant joke you are only team requesting and getting approved so many walkovers."

We all know why you 1) didn't show any interest whatsoever in getting our last game played the last few days and 2) didn't claim your last walkovers. This applies somewhat to sd as well (since I see some whine comments from them in here).
This is standard from you, bitching back and forth getting the final placement just as you like. But then again, it doesn't affect which finalists we will see this season at all - so it shouldn't be anything to bitch about even at your standards.

"really bad from admins they don't even think about talking to other div1 teams, but just giving blank cheque to fom for walkover ATM machine."

Not even worth responding to.

"But admin's answer was "all teams are equal in EQL, we give no special treatment, just follow rules, we made newspost about wo"."

Same.

"Just poor judgement - AGAIN - by admin crew. Such a small scene, why don't they use their brains??"

Same.

One of top teams requesting so many walkovers, but no other teams doing the same? Not a word or a thought for the top division in EQL.

See above.

I guess the lack of games and interest from the teams throughout the season is reflected in the über slacking of management from admins.

This is actually true.

@para #28

Funny. Also perhaps make some constructive suggestion or similar instead of self-pity talk. I don't see the point of the post tbh.

@zero #52:

"lol rikoll.. u seriously became an arrogant donkey. u should switch back a little.. since you were a nice guy back in the days :/"

And that comes from zero himself. This is just getting better and better.

"and if you think you deserve the #1 spot with 2 weeks of activity and tons of walkovers... well thats another sad story."

2 weeks? This is simply not true and you know that as well. We've probably spammed and asked clans more than any other team throughout the season (and not only two weeks) - so cut the obvious bullshit, really.

@rkd #7, #46, #50

This is highlight of all the trolling in here. You don't know shit about this season 'behind the drapes' in div1, so just stop your bullshit 'rulings' and thoughts when it comes to claimed and granted wo's.

#52 became?

;) rikoll

lol rikoll.. u seriously became an arrogant donkey. u should switch back a little.. since you were a nice guy back in the days :/

and if you think you deserve the #1 spot with 2 weeks of activity and tons of walkovers... well thats another sad story.

By defining activity by official games played in EQL div1 this season, just shows how clueless you are. Stating that it is an undispiutable fact (that must be what you're referring to?) that SR have been more active than us this season, shows where your own reasoning is at.

The ostrich comment wasen't aimed at your skill level, but that you should stick to what you know and don't be the judge based on your own assumptions.

Doesn't change the fact that if SR would've requested wo's aswell they would be at first place.
So I don't see how I'm wrong in any way.
I don't really care if f0m is better than SR or vice versa but I don't see how SR should be punished for being the most active clan in div1.
So no you didn't deserve first place just because you beat SR in one of the group games, you weren't active enough to be awarded those points and admins should've done a better job administrating those WO's.
To simplify, you weren't active enough to deserve first place, since activity is a part of the equation not just skill.

It's great that you're too cool to listen to logic from a measly div2 player, not that listening to reasoning and undisputable facts have ever been your strong point.
You've always been the type of person to refute all facts that go against your beliefs(hi nature vs nurture thread), if I didn't know any better I would be sure you would strap a bomb around your waist and kill all the non-believers.

Rkd: You should really stop trying to be the judge of anything here. You have no clue whats been going on throughout the season. Criticism from SD / SR I can understand, but from you? It's just ridiculus. Stick your ostrich head back into the div2 anus where it belongs.

Ihmi: Maybe you're right, but I still hope to see SR play, WITH Murdoc, and try to make the best out of the rest of the season, even if they think they've been threated unfairly. They now have a chance to prove they're the best team, even with tough competition.

#44 Rikoll - 2011-11-21 20:54 (80.203.33.XXX)
Clearly, murdoc doesn't speak for all of SR, but if you really want to give WO in the semis or the finals vs us, I think thats it for the top level of QW TDM.

Nah, tVS quitting was it for the top level of QW TDM ;)
And don't be hypocrite. You said yourself that even if tVS would have continued playing you wouldn't have ever played vs tVS again =)

Its fun to read your thoughts (SR and fom) and you wondering why div1 dies slowly :E

#44 Rikoll - 2011-11-21 20:54 (80.203.33.XXX)
I thought SR would be more grateful for a challenge

Heh heh, you thought wrong. Everything is allways wrong and bad when there is competition for SR. Better teams should split up for the greater good etc.
Look how happy SR boys (at least ParadokS) were last season where there was no competition for them. ParadokS giving interviews and being active and acting like king of the hill... no signs of them wanting to split SR for "greater good"... :D

Now they have competition again and everything is spoilt and bad once again.

The problem with the WO handouts were that you gotta give em to the other teams aswell, as admins you can't just sit and say "well they didnt contact us about wo's so fuck em".
And only logical way to do the wo's for div1 this season was to remove TKS (remove 3p from slackers).
And give sd/sr/f0m wo's from c88 & BLT.

That would've ended with SR at 20p, f0m with 18p and SD with 15p.

The point is that there's no reasonable way at all that f0m should've been allowed to end up at first place because of wo's.
You had by absolutely no way "deserved" it, like you claim you do rikoll.

#44 Rikoll - 2011-11-21 20:54 (80.203.33.XXX)
After 2-3 weeks without any games, not even a prac, the interest sunk.

orly? :EE

For 2-3 weeks we asked daily for eql, and even prac, through .qw spam and asking each individual clan their channel as well. Milton or not, we spammed for prac / eql every day we had 4 online, and for a moment there we even were quite motivated for this season. After 2-3 weeks without any games, not even a prac, the interest sunk.

I requested the WOs, but I never requested WO vs SR & SD. I only said the games never got played due to various things. The closest thing I got to proof is logs, and I can provide that if anyone actually bothers.

With that said, I think we deserve the first place in the group stage. We were the best team in the group stages. If murdoc is too scared to play a semi final vs SD and a potential final versus us (we will get a WO vs c88 because they appear too scared to even give it a try), that's his decision.

Fusion would never have continued in its current state. tVS would never have continued in its current state as far as I know. This f0m project (we wasen't even sure it would be 'f0m') was mostly an initiative from me, and somewhat lacsap, to try to give SR a serious challenge for this season. We could all go our different paths, and the outcome of this season would be well known even at the start of this season. I thought SR would be more grateful for a challenge, but instead they start to whine about some WOs, that doesn't really affect the likely finals in any way.

Clearly, murdoc doesn't speak for all of SR, but if you really want to give WO in the semis or the finals vs us, I think thats it for the top level of QW TDM. Specs will lose interest, we will lose interest, and you seemed to already have lost interest. Although, with a losers attitude like you show now, I'm pretty sure what the outcome of the final would have been even if you decided to play it.

Make an effort to try to make div1 4on4 become interesting, and get hate from all over the place. Lesson learned.

"Just look at last season where SD and CCCP dliberately avoided playing eachother for the whole season and admins then allowed SD to get 6 points from walkovers" <- is this irony or something? all I can say is I LOL'd.
it's not true in any way

read the thread from last season if you need some info about that issue..

anyway you are in the same situation we were then and you deserve WO as well as we did last season

Ihminen may be trolling but Para is outright lying, as usual. I'm in fact doing neither. Our break-up had nothing to do with f0m.

Could have been only matter of minutes before the troll brothers are back to business.

"Noone wished to see fom break up 2 clans to make 1 inactive team."

We broke up because Ihminen quit 4on4 after EQL12 and Milton left tVS in the summer. Fom was re-established later and had nothing to do with it.

And of course we refused to break-up. The point in team sports is to get the best players, the best gameplay and win. A scene where this no longer applies is not a scene I'm interested in playing. It starts to sound too much like special olympics.

I was banned a year from #slackers. The reason was:

"ParadokS: You asked prac too often"

:EE

That's why a fixed schedule pre-arranged is far superior. Clans HAVE to contact the opponents and get something arranged. The system wasn't flawless and might cause some hassle, for example clan A just doesn't accept another date for the game than the one previously arranged - which may be lame, but you know you can dislike about that, and it's certainly not an admin's fault.

This laissez-faire system may be good if all clans were equally reliable and active, but that isn't the case. I can only recommend to introduce a fixed schedule system and make clans talk to each other. If only one team is around at scheduled game time and the other one hasn't shown any activity to get it scheduled, so be it, WO.

Relegate all div1 teams to div2 next season and problem solved. Div2 teams will opt for div2 like usual, and they will get what they ask for :E

divisions are soooo last season... ;D

Yeah, new system!
Div1 was for tVS!

I get a headache from reading your comments.

#31

Hell yeah, my vote for new system :)

so u all want more competitive div1. imo only way to do it is split fom/sr for 3-4 teams. Those teams have 2-3 very good players and they can took 2-3 div1 players from div2. That list is in div whine section. Prolly now someone say "we dont wanna play with donkeys" but if u read that section u all sayd they are good enough to play in div1. After that we have 3-4 teams+tks+sd+c88 and maybe blt who are aqual teams. THERE IS ALOT COMPETITIVE. prolly sd is favorite after that but they are not so much stronger than sr/fom are now.
After this maybe some div1 players from div2 wanna join to hot parties allso and gather few teams more.

but allso u can do like para sayd and move 4-5 teams from div2 to div1. onlything is probably no one of those wont play a single prac against top teams and few of those teams wont even play eql games against top teams..

"But instead you completely isolated div1, so that all free agents all went underground untill season started, so they could start joining div2 teams and again bottom div1 teams started idling from the get go."

I dont see why adding more cannon fodder to div1 wouldnt mean that they instead started idling when they realised they cant even beat tks or c88 let alone sr fom or sd...

Sure the bottom clans would be blt, sd2, fu, oclan, tossers, csn, ssc, imm and they would still have their close and competetive games but the games vs the top would be pointless. Just like all top vs bottom games in every division are.

Im for some new structure now, divisions just dont work anymore. Divisions are based on the assumption that teams want to rise through the system and play in a higher division all the time. There are also real payoffs like higher revenue etc when you rise in the system in other competitions. In qw it doesnt work like that and thats why divisions dont work either.

Different systems have been presented over at qw.nu forum and I suggest we pick one of those from now on. Mixed league, 2 large equally strong divisions or ladder. Just anything else than this 3 div circus.

Regarding the lack of activity, I don't see the problem here, are teams expected to sit around everyday and spam the bot for EQL game or prac? The reason Fusion disbanded is that it takes alot of time to build a competitive team from the start with players that dont have the experience of playing the biggest games. You basically need to prac daily, the thing with FOM is that you already have these players that have the experience and the complete knowledge of 4on4, you don't need that much prac, its more about individual form. We have players like Milton and Rikoll who play daily, the rest isnt that active. I like it better, I can play whenever I have time and feel like playing, we're not an inactive team, we have players that can be seen on servers daily. You just don't get much more prac as a top team in Quakeworld.

Well para you make alot of assumptions, you forget that Fusion still had about 5 players available after we left, right? Some members wanted a more competitive team, so FOM was formed.

You already had striker in sr, you recruited Darkki, I can assume cmf was dead before you picked him up? Well guess what, TVS and Fusion werent going to be around this season even if we didn't start FOM or not. The only reason I even installed Quake was because I was told from Rikoll that FOM was back and we had a competitive team. I'm guessing next season will be something different, hopefully for the better of division 1.

crying? we are not crying, we played pracs with fom sd and anyone who wanted to play.

Also we did not wish for this? Would have been ten times better if tvs didn't break up and fom still created AND fusion was still alive. Noone wished to see fom break up 2 clans to make 1 inactive team.

And it was like tVS that refused to break up in previous seasons with the message "other teams can just step up". So with fom creation we were forced to strengthen also with striker/darkki to have a chance at fom.

But i didn't even want them. I wanted darkki to be on a super .fi team and i wanted to see 1-2 more strong swedish teams to make this season interesting.

Only hope after fom was that tKS would not go inactive, and that A LOT more teams from div2 would be moved to div1 so there would be some more action there.

But instead you completely isolated div1, so that all free agents all went underground untill season started, so they could start joining div2 teams and again bottom div1 teams started idling from the get go.

Then I don't know anything about the WOs, if other games than that were done by walkover I would consider it lame, but like I said, I don't even know myself which games we got on walkover.

Don't see the point in the whining though, does it really matter? Is the final NOT going to be between SR and FOM? You might as well play the final tonight and get it done with. No disrespect to the other participants, but I just think no one is satisfied with this season.

It shouldn't even be possible to get WO from tKS, previous seasons clans that played like 1 game were just removed from the league, no teams got points vs them.

#20, lol, wtf? Thats the biggest bullshit I've heard so far. Milton was gone for 2 weeks in the beginning of the season, NOTE when half our games and pracs where played? We played two EQL games with him, vs SR and BLT, the rest? No idea, we were actively looking for games whenever we had 4 by spamming the bot, no clan did ever put the energy into scheduling with us (neither did we, I guess, not me atleast). Xantom became inactive the past 3 weeks I guess, we've done pracs without him just as we did pracs without Milton, what the fuck? Did not expect these outrageous claims from you para. As for the WOs, I'm pretty sure we requested WOs from TKS and C88, don't know anything about the rest.

"I dont think so. Also, stop complaining, its not like you dared to prac vs tVS regularly..."

So true! You got what you wanted / deserved and your not happy?

When we tried to discuss about these problems etc you just denied everything and said stop the BS!

So stop crying bitches! :D

Who really cares? Final will be FOM vs SR anyway and the winner will be FOM.

As if smurrie :E

#18

It is hardly the systems fault that so few top players still play. Perhaps if you stopped making super div0 teams all the time you would have someone to play against? Or do you get alot of pracs vs div2 while not having the opportunity to face them in official games? I dont think so. Also, stop complaining, its not like you dared to prac vs tVS regularly...

With that said, I agree with Paradoks. We havent been able to treat this or last couple of seasons correctly. Lack of time etc. But I am still glad we had some sort of QW tournament. I just hope we will be able to put in more hours for EQL15 and other tournaments. We have gotten an influx of new admins which I hope will be able to help out with the custom tournament amongst other things.

"Not our problem that teams try their luck vs sr first before withdrawing or going inactive from the league completely, but sure, we shouldnt be able to get those points!" (c) nitram

That's a joke. Fom was so inactive cause milton was in africa, xantom was moving etc. FOM was nowhere to be found for long time of this season.

So yes, it IS a giant joke you are only team requesting and getting approved so many walkovers.

really bad from admins they don't even think about talking to other div1 teams, but just giving blank cheque to fom for walkover ATM machine.

But admin's answer was "all teams are equal in EQL, we give no special treatment, just follow rules, we made newspost about wo".

Just poor judgement - AGAIN - by admin crew. Such a small scene, why don't they use their brains??

One of top teams requesting so many walkovers, but no other teams doing the same? Not a word or a thought for the top division in EQL.

I guess the lack of games and interest from the teams throughout the season is reflected in the über slacking of management from admins.

Yeah I know, but that is not the point here.
It's not about walkovers, it's about bad judgement, and using crap like posted topics as excuse for it. It's like saying "Our way or fuckoff".

And play even more games in this crap EQL system? No thanks, you can have WO from me in semi and final also. Don't know what others will do but I am done with this shit.

It doesn't, but in all seriousness theres only three teams that are interested in continuing with this season, you could just as well skip the playoff all together and put these three teams into a group where they meet eachother twice or something, the team with the most points win it all, seems more logical than the constant whine about walkovers. We try to play all of our games, why not? The problem isnt us, I can assure you that much :)

Well it's not like 2 wrongs make a right :)

Well Darkki, its been like this in the previous seasons as well, worse calls than this have been made before. Not like the calls in div1 make any difference? Just look at last season where SD and CCCP dliberately avoided playing eachother for the whole season and admins then allowed SD to get 6 points from walkovers to pass fusion for the 3rd spot. How is that fair? Not much you can do about it, these WOs were hardly in the same manner.

Nitram, don't really know if you tried to play your games or not. You probably did. I was pointing my critisism towards admins. Don't care about who is 1st or so either, but bad calls like these are just yeah..bad.

Its not like its any easier to get all your games played with 10-12 teams either as you can see by looking at div2-3...

Some ppl are just impossible to get hold of until you spot them at some server, then you go there and ask for eql and get "maybe soon". But then they are gone again... :(

But then again, I was pretty set on ending second, didn't really matter. Was just as surprised as sr when I found out we actually ended first(?). Well, right now I guess everyone just wants to get the season overwith so we can look forward on improving div1. We tried to get all our games played but for various reasons we couldn't. it's to be expected when theres this few teams in a division and the motivation is at an all time low for most teams.

So we are considered an inactive team that didnt try to get our games going and shouldnt then be able to request WOs?

lol.

Not our problem that teams try their luck vs sr first before withdrawing or going inactive from the league completely, but sure, we shouldnt be able to get those points!

#7 & #8 I mean.