WTF!!

I think this is a good decision, activity has exploded last few days and continue going up.

If u are active - u are active!

#3: Welcome to the tautology club.

Are Deus and John Snow gonna double for "oddballs" and "mob of oddballs"? Guessing it's a f'up in registering =)

#5 Its being sorted by admin and dib, yap f'up 8)

Now we got it sorted out. :)

the winner of div2 in eql13 will be put into div1 in eql14, right?

And we are off! :D

BLT won div2 in eql12 as well without being put in div1. Why? Because they are not good enough to play in div1.

How many times do you need this explained? The promotion/demotion system of the top2/bottom2 clans was removed somewhere around 10 seasons ago since it didnt work out.

Why?

The number of total clans change each season making divisions unproportionally large or small depending on how many teams are removed by the fact that clans cease to exist.

Also, even if you win div2 or div3 you mostly stand no chance in hell to win even a map in the higher division. Look at osams, they came 2nd in div3 and then won 1 map in div2 the following season.

We also have the issue with new clans. Should they enter the lowest division? Should they be put where we see fit?

The league will be best and most fun for all if we each season make divisions based on current skill and lineup. Just because some team won div2 or div3 it doesnt mean that they should advance to a higher division next season. The might not even have those 1-3 good players that made them win anymore.

However, if a team feel like trying out a higher division than we recommend then they are free to tell us so and if we think they might benefit from facing tougher opponents, i.e have potential to actually become good enough for that division in the _immideate future_ we will put them there. Just look at DC, they arent really close to win versus most of the div1 teams but they wanted a challenge so they have been playing in div1 for a few seasons.

well in this case, what was the reason of automatically put psy to div2 last season?

I'm just curious, not trolling.

Psy ended up in div2 because we thought they would be good enough. It wasnt done automatically. If that was the case then the system you mentioned had to have been in place now wouldnt it?

For some reason they stopped playing after 4 games so we never got to find out how good they were. They also _only_ played versus the top3 clans + pewpew and it is natural that they lost 0-2 to all the top3 teams. You cant really expect a newcomer in div2 to beat any of the top teams can you? Psy didnt even try to play versus any of the other teams so you cant say it was unfair to put them in div2.

I dont think you are trolling but you are obviously not happy about psy ending up in div2 when the fact is that the team didnt even bother to try versus any of the teams they could have won a map against or perhaps even win versus after getting schooled by the best teams.

Short version: Each season we place the teams in the division we see fit.

Our decision is for example based on, but not limited to, the following criteria: previous accomplishments, best possible lineup, practice games, individual player skill.

Should some team be extremely misplaced we can, and have done so before, move them up or down.

Feels like it's time to dust off the mouse and win div2!

In that case you need to show up for the pracs Hagge!

Ok, might show up on Thursday! ;)

I've recently talked to some of the lover div clan members and they highlighted some interesting aspects to me. Mainly, its the teams placement and division arrangements. They stated that only three divisions lead to mistakes in team placement and hinder the activity/make ppl quit QW. Many misplaced teams go inactive or quit the game in the long run. I can remember tha CCS case when they were badly misplaced. This resulted in inactivity and and now the clan is done for.
I can agree with that - some teams will never improve or have the desire to compete in a higher div. In fact, competing with clans with approx. the same skill level is what makes the game still attractive to majority I guess.
So what do I have in mind? Simply, more dvisions with fewer teams in them. Dor example: I can see now only 5 teams that can play for the keeps in div1 (SR, SD, fom, c88 and TKS). Why , make it bigger and provoke inactivity/rapes? You could make 4-5 fivisions instead with 5-6 teams in each.
Ofc, to provide more interesting games, each team plays another AT LEAST TWICE (that worked well in div1 last season and it shold be maintained).
Some might say that one team gong inacitive would ruin a whole div. It might but the we still should take that risk. After all, one donkey team will not riun QW. But some teams that are misplaced could therefore stop playing and quit QW in the long run.
More divisions equals better placed teams which will result in higher activity and overall community satisfaction. And playing every opponent at least twice equals more games. More games, more QW, more fun, fewer teams/players quitting.

Hello Kloze!

I think you have a valid and interesting point but i disagree, here is why:

In a large division, lets say 12 clans, there will obviously be a winner and 11 losers. Some teams will be top6 and some will be bottom6. The bottom6 will perhaps get raped by 3 clans, lose versus 3 more and have 5 more even games versus the rest. Yeah it is possible that the bottom team will lose every game and get raped by 6-8 opponents.

But that would have happened anyway even if they played in div5 with only 4-5 opponents and playing each team twice. Perhaps their games versus one of the clans would be more even but generally they would lose big time as usual.

Cant really see the difference for the 1-2 bottom clans in each division as they are bad enough to lose by a large margin or get raped by their opponents anyway no matter if the division is 12 or 6 teams. The teams that on average end up in place 6-10 in a 12 team division shouldnt really complain either, they dont really get raped but they arent good enough to win div2 or div3 and making smaller divisions wont make most of them win their division anyway.

When nqr used small groups, like 5-6 teams, it really sucked when the 2 worst clans started to idle after their first 1-2 losses. Its just too few games left even if you meet the other 3-4 clans 2 times.

But if ppl from lover divs/ppl of lover skills think they way I've presented we /you should really take it into consideration.
nd yes, some teams will go inactive as usual but that shouldnt kill the divisions with more rounds to play in the regular season.
The skill level among clans is so polarized that it may lead to another dicouragement towards EQL activity. We now have record low in singups, lets not make it worse for the future perhaps? And if not 5, you can still make 4 divs with those 26 teams signed up. At least you will avoid some contrversy and comfort more ppl than before :) Consider it!!

lover ----> lower :))

Well, DC told me they want to play in div1 so that leaves 20 clans for the other 3 divisions. 7-7-6 or smth. Sure it might work with 12-12-10 games but I still think the teams would suffer too much if 1-3 teams starts to idle since you lose 2 games per team, 6 total compared to 3 lost games in a large division if 3 starts to idle.

Also, how damaging can it be to have to play a few games versus the top teams when you can prac how much you want versus more equal teams on the side?

With your system you have to play 6 games versus the top3 clans and probably get raped all 6 games if you are team number 7 in div2 for example...

We will consider this ofc but unless I start to see some massive support for more than 3 divisions, like representatives from atleast 14+ clans, I dont really see a need for more than 3 divisions.

Bte, "lover divs" sounds interesting! ;)

I hope we will be placed in a lover div. This game is all about the love, isn't it? Be

"Also, how damaging can it be to have to play a few games versus the top teams when you can prac how much you want versus more equal teams on the side? "
Hey it will happen only with large divisions where skills are very polarized! THats what I was talking about :)
And with smaller divs with better placed teams that inactivity peril imho diminshes.
When it comes to DC, I dont think they're prepared for div1 and it was an honest error of judgement. Im sure they will contact you soon to get this thing straight :)
regards:)

I cant see how we could avoid ending up in a lover division with britfags like Hagge in our team!

Well I talked to DC last night.

"Do you want to play in div1 no matter if its 6 or 12 clans?"

"yes, good night"

But perhaps it has changed since?

What I've heard is just the opposite but I will ask again.

I still think that as the 7th team in div2-3-4 there is a big chance to get raped byt top1-3 teams just as in a larger divisions. Just do the divs in your head using current clans and you will quickly see the skill-gap even in divisions of 6-7 teams.

Still, the skill gaps will be LOWER and thats a fact. And thats GOOD if skills are comparable, especially in divs 2-3-4 where ppl are very sensitive to rapes. I hope that some ppl especially from lower divs will soon speak here.

I like that idea. In fact, I'd go even further and increase the number of divisions to 26. That way, everything is fair and no team loses to stronger opposition. If this solution attracts new players because the QW scene is so nice and all games are close and fair, the number of divisions must be increased accordingly in eql15, obviously.

Osams aiming for div26 andy?

Yes Hagge, and not only that: We're going to win Div26, I promise you, without losing a single map.

The combined skill-gap is obviously lower but the top clans will still rape or win vs the lowest clans even with small divisions, as it should be.

What about competition dont you understand? And how hard can it be to lose a few games when you still are free to prac vs equal teams the other days of the week?

I just dont agree that we will benefit from small divisions.

Well 4 divs could work better than 3 in some cases, easiest way to check is to make prelimenary divs and see what teams would be where, and you'll be able to see if divs will be tighter/better with 3 or 4-5 divs. :)

Perhaps something like
div1: sr, f0m, c88, tks, sd
div2: sd2, fu, blt, tossers, dc, ssc, csn, oclan.
Then possible divide leftover 13 clans to 2 divs aswell. I dont know div3 teams so no idea how to rank them.

Those divs listed above by rkd seem very ok ( too bad only 5 teams in div1 but what can you do?). ot sure about the rest of the teams, just for the Polish ones: dc2 and machinery in div3 (when there are 4 fivs ofc)

How about going the other way? 2 divs. Still would be some rapes ofc, but every team would have good chances of winning games vs several opponents as well.

Or even one div with 26 teams in it!! Still would be some rapes ofc, but every team would have good chances of winning games vs several opponents as well. ;)

On more serious note: that would certainly lead to inactivity greater than seasons ago, I can bet. Which would result in another record low in singups in the following tourneys etc

Don't think 2 larger divs would do anyone any good, just alot of wo's, I wouldn't bother to play the top teams at all if I was in one of the bottom teams. No point to it at all.

Finally the best part of the season has started :) On a serious note. I don't see smaller divisions benefiting QW in the long term at all. (maybe short term)

It will make for even more skill polarization (not necessarily within the div) and with the always idle clans of each division it might break some divs. Also if you know your team is going to be raped by X and Y, then having to play them not once but twice might be extremely boring for that clan.

I'd rather see what Rikoll said, but I don't think that is going to happen. and it might be the right choice in this particular game due to the rape factor.

im totally with kloze this time. As i was pointing out season to season, this system won't help the newbies and new teams to adapt and learn.

With the smaller-div-system, yes it can happen that the top 3 will rape the lower 5 (in a 4 div systems).
The skill gap is closer than in the 3div systems. The lower teams CAN reach the top3, they can steal points from them and can compete!

and yes, it can happen that clans went idle. and? increase the number of rounds to 5. with a division with 7 teams, 2 go idle, 5 teams reamin. 5 teams with 5 rounds is a huge amount of qw fun..

so im totally up for smaller, and maybe 5div system.

div1: sr, f0m, c88, tks, dc, sd, sd2
div2: the rest.

Imo any team that wants to play in division 1 currently, should have the opportunity to do so (unless they're div99 of course).

It's also too bad it's come to a point where it's needed to discuss how to handle the symptoms of the shrinking scene instead of putting a lot more energy into getting more players into QW and thereafter into the 4on4 scene.

I don't understand the logic that smaller divs = more rapes..
If you look at my suggestion for div2 there's really no team there that can truly rape another team in that div. sd2 and DC with their best lineup will be able to beat some teams with some big scores but nothing like we see when low div1 clans play top div1 clans.
And the overall skill of those teams in that div2 I suggested is really close imo.
Perhaps Oclan is a bit weak there but would still be able to compete or moved to div3.
Smaller divs = better games, but people gotta realize aswell not to divide the divs into equal size, do it based on skill instead, if there are 10 teams of similar skill put them in one div. If only 5 of similar skill, put only 5 in that div.

Preventing ppl from quitting and listening to the lower skilled one/nebbies also is taking care of the game. As well as creating/running new tourneys ofc :)

I coudnt concur more with #42

voted for rkd, and kloze.

Perhaps the road to redeeming QW isn't as simple as to fool bad players into thinking they're good? In every aspect of life, if you suck at something, you will lose. If you really enjoy it, you will improve, being inspired by the really good actors and hoping that, by practice and determination, one day you can achieve such skill.

People seem to forget that this is a competition. If it was for the sole purpose of enjoyment for the casual player, why even call it a league? Let's call it a donkey farm.
When I started to play quake, what motivated me to play was watching demos of the good players and hoping that one day, I could compete with the very best.

In my eyes, cuddling with bad players not interested in improving is just prolonging their inevitable exit. For starters they are not the people breathing fresh air into the scene. They should not be the focus. They are not motivating anyone.

So in my mind, what motivates newbies is a competitive league. Not a league that tries to meet everyone's expectations and ends up meetings nobody's.

So if you're not interested in improving or competing (which in my mind goes hand in hand), you are always welcome to mixes where teams are formed to be as even as possible regardless of your individual skill level. You can even prac (if you're in a clan) all night long against clans you're on the same skill level as, enjoying quake with your friends.

When people want to compete they should be warmly welcomed to enter the league. But if they are not, there's alot of other ways to enjoy quake. So make EQL a competition for the people interested in competing, and not a retirement home.

The divisions shouldn't be defined by people's laziness and poor attitude towards competition. Rather their drive and passion for the game.

Hail Demolition Crew and Machinery!

you can have your hardcore competition with about 2,5 teams left if the trend continues.
we need to offer fun, accessible competition if we want to keep qw from dying out completely.

Give me my fun now goddamnit!!

Screw you guys, I´m going home...

I understand what you are saying Cara and I think you're right in some regards.

However you can't deny tho there is a huge number of people who actually are not motivated to improve, but rather want to play the game they have played and loved for years at a competitive level of their current skill. (or even under their skill)

And I don't blame them. If you're not driven to become better, what is actually in it playing at the highest level? There's no e-fame, there's no money.

All the div1 (or former so) players signing up for div2 (or even div3 lol) is a clear sign of this.

All the div2/3 clans who never wan't to take the next step into a higher div is another one.

I am not saying this is something good. It seems to be the reality though.

#47
It's not hardcore competition. It's basic competition.

We need to offer a platform where people can compete. The competition in it's raw form generates an interest you can't get from unmotivated players struggling to be in a as low division as possible.