I have never killed Hagge in qw :<

I think its more of an mm3 problem.

Anza is too afraid to play in div2 since he might not get any frags :(

I have psychic powers and I predict that anza will play only few maps just like in the past couple of season also :)

Word Anza...
FU is a clan with many members and would it be shame if only 4-5 could play official games. "Sorry dude, your too bad to play in this game" or "Sorry, we cant play today cause Kassim isn't online". Now they can play a game when ever they want and which lineup they want.

And some div1 players in div2 isnt bad thing at all. Milton (SSC) has been there, aswell as I have and many many others. Actually its a good step to face one good player instead of four. In Zoo I just told troops to focus Milton, when ever he gets armor or weapon... hunt him down. After that we used individual skins and voise and managed to win some maps vs mighty Milton. And actually learned some TP also.

And Zoo became one of the best clans in div2, also managed to keep that place even I left them.

But as we know we are so damn old that we dont have time anymore. So maybe the only option is to split top clans or force them to use low skilled players. Or playing about frags instead of map wins. And give lower div some amount of plus frags :D

"I" as "we in FU" and we aren't even ashamed of wanting to play in div2. It suits us just fine.

Saying stuff like "i could play in div1 but im too inactive so i just wanna have fun with friends in div2" or something similar is just bs. In that case you could just as well only prac with the clan. If we had made a larger division1 the top div2 teams would be in it and they would have to remove their div1ish players if they wanted to avoid it.

That being said, Im glad BLT stepped up and I wish them the best of luck.

anza you're only gonna play like a map or two anyways if the others let you, so i do think that no one really cares about your opinnion :D

If I gotta choose between lots of tight games and being assraped even if we are named the 6th best clan in QW, hmmm...let me check...I SO want those tight games.

It is a real shame to see what is happening to division 1 and I can understand teams like TVS leaving it behind.

I tried to play div 1 few seasons ago but players generally dont like to make that step. They feel having a chance at winning div 2 is more rewarding than effectively being 6th best clan in quakeworld. Its a strange mentality. Also not happy about getting raped, too much pride and ego i guess.

Regarding tossers not making a confident step into division 1, is simply down to not being able to field a team. Having real issues atm with that even with a huge list of players.

I couldnt even give you four names who are interested at this present time. This goes for our better players too. The ones that would be paramount to even do a little bit of damage in div 1.

BLT, should be div 1, very active and have nothing left to proove in div 2. Not sure on the others, depends if they can field an active team.

Yes HT, that last part of your post is kinda true. as it stands now the only one in SD2 that is to be considered active is Ok98 with the occasional help from dahmer and trash. I myself have at best one gaming-night per week due to recent jobsituation and can be counted out.

With that said SD2 has to practise with a standin quite often (molle) which hardly helps bringing any consitency to the teamplay overall.

Sure it did help and I appreciate it much and thank SR for doing this. It really helped me develop and I hope I did when it comes to some skills and tactics.
But to play in div1 you need a team. A well skilled and really ACTIVE team, not just casual players taking many breaks. That is a must. I also didnt join some team because I like stable teams that are not endangered to disbanding after one year. And that sure is the case in today's QW.

At the time of writing I'd say the prime candidates to move up from div2 to div1 might be DC, SD2 and Tossers.

Whether they have the desire or not is another matter however, DC has played a few seasons in div1 so is in a good position to make an informed decision.

A quick point about *2 clans (SR2, SD2, DC2 etc) I'd like to make is that I think in some ways they get some extra advantages in terms of being helped out by their sister clan in terms of tactic discussions and ability to get good/consistent standins for prac. So it seems probably that e.g. SD2 should in theory be able to play quite a lot of practice games since even if they only have 3 players online they could probably take a standin from SD.

Obviously this doesn't help if they have loads of inactive players, but I do think it probably helped to develop the play of some SR2 players in the past getting to play with elite teammates and some extra coaching etc (Zero, Kloze etc)

para just doesn't seem to understand the difference between "just playing your matches" and being given incentive to want to play those matches....

Lots of good suggestions indeed, but Paradoks thinks they sound retarded.

And the award to the most retarded comment goes to..... nr #37! Your price is to play in Kingpins team in your next 4on4 mix game. Congrats!

Yeah we have loads of good suggestions to keep in mind for upcoming seasons. Thx for everyones input.

People keep repeating "_blank_ team is too good for div2, so should play in div1" but the simple truth is that none of those teams would stand a chance against div0 clans. In the end what it comes down is the satisfaction of competing and trying to win. These teams will never feel this satisfaction because that chance of winning doesn't exist. In the end for everyone it's about the competition factor to play in these tournaments, right?
This is the exact reason why RKD suggested what he did and why I agree with that proposal.

Shouldnt be hard to admit that ok98, lethalwiz, dahmer and locktar is a good lineup by div2 standards. But obviously it is :)

This is why we didnt force any border line div1/2 clans into div1. As soon as you even mention the possibility to place a certain clan in div1 they defend themselves to the bone! :)

But this is just speculation since nor these teams niether anyone else outside of div1 are interested in playing vs sr/f0m/sd etc :P

That prac vs DC u had players from both DC and DC2 if i remember right? Think u would do much better then that one with best lineup ofc

SD2>FU, but FU or Tossers would be the next in line imo.

interesting that you bring up us before FU Hooraytio. Kassim, Diki, Badass etc etc. We have ok98 and lw, then a bunch of 4n4 noobs and a old senil guy (wonder who) Locktar is a really good 1n1/2n2 player yes (div 0) but he has never played 4n4 "for real" -fuck cant find my way out of this labyrinth! (c)Locktar --> sng on dm3 =)=)=)=)

It's quite clear that SD2 would be the first team promoted to div1 if there had been any teams forced into div1.

I don't see SD2 going there by free will any time.

It was a good idea but they added to many good players to really be a div2 team in my opinion.

As it is now I guess we just have to live with them winning div2 and don't see this repeated next season.

#54 Approx. 250 as far as I can remember

I guess DC didnt get 100, but what did SD2 get?

NO PAIN NO GAIN! :)

A couple of days ago DC played a dm3 prac vs SD2. Not even 100 frags. Just two cents to the current shape and situation and div1 aspirations of both clans.
I cant post the screen since qwstats page doesnt support Dybukk servers I guess.

My hat's off for BLT, showing the scene what it's all about.

And in contrary to popular belief I do not want div2 teams to enter div1 for the sake of easy/more games. Because as happy as I am for the scene that div2 clans manning up, on a personal level it doesn't affect me the least. The games that are fun to spectate are the ones that are fun to play, very simple math.

I just hope that more clans follow BLTs example so we can get more competition into div1 the coming seasons to counter-act the trend of div1 depletion. It's the games you all love to watch after all.

Imo ssc would also be a good candidate for div1 since they got moje, katsku and miroslav. But I guess they dont want to either :)

This is me not posting as an admin:

Another team that should fit into div1 is obviously SD2 judging by their best lineup. But i guess they just dont wanna.

Incredibly sporty of you, BLT. Even if you end up last in div1, that would still be a better achievement than first in div2.

Hats off for you!

I like rkds idea :E

Like I stated before, my idea only serves a purpose if _IF_ you actually want div1 and div2 teams to play eachother.
And if you do then my idea is simply a suggestion of a better way to do things then how they did it in eql12.

I think there are alot of teams/players both from div1 and from div2 that don't want to play eachother.
We all know that div1 teams want more teams and more competition in their division, but I think alot of them also don't want just a bunch of div2 teams to play that add no competition for anyone.

Personally I would prefer to stay in the current div2, I don't really care about div1 and I certainly don't want to play in or against div1 teams.
Again, it's just _IF_ div1 and div2 teams have to face eachother, atleast put some thought in how to make it somewhat more satisfactory for both sides.

#42 Oh yeah? http://eql.quakeworld.nu/eql12/matches/97#Played

Since there is radicalism in the air...

Convert frags to points. It would bring some meaning to the uneven matches. You could actually benefit from trying hard and not just waste 40 minutes.

"Sounds like a better team with lesser activity can be beat by a worse one with more activity"
This is true in any division, anytime, always.
If you don't play your games a team that plays all their games can get more points than you even if they are worse than you.
If you never want to play div1 teams just say so instead, don't make up false arguments that don't hold up at all.

#16 miku - 2011-09-20 14:40 (92.249.213.XXX)
Why dont you div1 guys do some coaching? Hlt, ihminen, and other well experienced div1 players could train some div2 materials into div1.

I have done this with Zoo, FT and now FU.
With Zoo we actually got some nice games vs top div1 clans... but damn it took a lot of time and tactical conversations... Also right players with good attitude.

Seeing as you would in your mind lose all games 2-0 against div1 teams the games should go faster.
Not to mention that div2 less than a day ago was 16 teams, I guess that's why so many teams posted here saying that there's no chance they have the time to play 15 games? oh wait.. noone complained about it.
So it has nothing to do with activity, just you not wanting to play a div1 team, ever.

Sounds like a better team with lesser activity can be beat by a worse one with more activity (respawning 40 minutes for one point) and not getting to playoffs...interesting idea, not sure if it is going to make the team with less activity begin to idle more or not. Some people are on tight schedule these days.

yea it's basically the same except no team can try to lose games on purpose to get into the silver playoff instead with my idea.

#38, then introduce a gold playoff and a silver playoff and just put top8 in gold playoff, bottom 8 in silver playoff, everyone gets a playoff chance...

no it's not, if you are number 1 in division 2 you have to play number 8 in division 2 in your first playoff game. For example DC vs CSN.
If you play in a merged division 1 and get #9 you don't get to play playoffs.
And every game you play is pointless since you know there is nothing for you in the end.
Read, think, read again, think, read a couple more times, then post.
Cause you're the one being retarded atm, not the idea =)

sounds retarded to me.. why not play in same division then... if you are #1 in division 2 or #9 in a merged division is exactly the same outcome, u have to play the same matches

I would like to add that except what I just said and a few minor stuff. I like the idea, or at least the creativity of trying to solve the problem in a better way.

I can already imagine the whine from clan Y being on top of clan X in div1 standings due to being able to get more div2 clans playing vs them. Because lets face it, activity points or not, not all matches are going to get played.

What springs said.
Div1 has for example 8 clans, div2 has 8 clans.
Team slackers in div1, play the 7 teams in div1 once, and the 8 teams in div2 once.
So it's similar to a merge just that the teams have their own division, their own standings, and their own playoff.
You don't actually compete against the teams in the other division, it's just a means to get more points to increase your position in your own division.

As a div1 or div2 team it doesn't matter at all how many points, +/- stats the teams in the opposite division have.

So long story short, you do basically merge div1 and div2 when it comes to playing your games, but the clans in their respective divs still have a chance to win their own div and not have a guaranteed spot which is never going to be higher than 6th or 7th.

I understand RKD's proposal and think it's quite genius. Basically what he's trying to say is that even though you are in separate divs the clans in div2 who do decide to play against all the div1 clans have a better shot at reaching playoffs than the clans who don't because they don't want to get raped. So basically you are forcing div2 clans to play against div1 clans to stay in the race for winning div2 and also give the div1 clans more games than just the other 5 clans in their own div.
Does that make sense?

This would of course mean that even if you lose a game, you would have to get points (1 for lose, 2 for tie, 3 for win?)

@ #16
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't SR try this for some time with a few players which they took from lower divs (with some degree of success I might add) but they were met with a lot of flak from the community because they were being accused of just doing it for their own benefit (internal pracs and poaching players from active div2-3 clans).

Great idea, except it kinda negates the whole concept of a clan/guild/team if you just play in different teams. Don't know if I like that trend.

Also I don't even understand rkd's proposal.... let div1 teams play against div2 teams, this will not be the same as basically merging div2 and div1?
What do you mean let div2 and div1 play against each other.

And the smackdown thing - well ofc the div1 temas are favourite in all the groups, but the other 4 teams are still fighting over who will go to what playoff group and who will not go anywhere... so what inf there is a favourite in group stages.