lol just now saw that u started with a "next page" solution to the commentary pages, thought i've gone insane or that there was something really wrong with my interrrnetttt :DDD

Whats the whine about here? a close game? a rape? wtf is going on? Why dont u try out the ChampionsLeuage try-outs? Small very quick groups wich decides wich teams who belongs in wich division?'
And btw, RicKarD: About players who sneak into div2? Your one of them, you have the quake-blood running in your veins from your two bigger brothers, who was div1 even before there was something callled HPW and LPB ;)

Whats the whine about here? a close game? a rape? wtf is going on? Why dont u try out the ChampionsLeuage try-outs? Small very quick groups wich decides wich teams who belongs in wich division?'
And btw, RicKarD: About players who sneak into div2? Your one of them, you have the quake-blood running in your veins from your two bigger brothers, who was div1 even before there was something callled HPW and LPB ;)

Whats the whine about here? a close game? a rape? wtf is going on? Why dont u try out the ChampionsLeuage try-outs? Small very quick groups wich decides wich teams who belongs in wich division?'
And btw, RicKarD: About players who sneak into div2? Your one of them, you have the quake-blood running in your veins from your two bigger brothers, who was div1 even before there was something callled HPW and LPB ;)

hmm. am i actually reading what im reading? Whining about a really thight game? Diki is no div.0 player(nothing personal), but he was the benchwarmer in TVS. Why not try the soccer champions leauge style? Make many small quick groups, where the best teams go to div 1 a.s.o. ? And yes i havent been playing quake for like 5 years but i follow every eql season every day and watch as many games my time allowa me too... and as Kapitan Kloze said, QW is not today about money or anything, its about having fun with tour friends

RicKarD, dont forget that your are a div.1 player aswell who sneaks in too div.2, u got the quakeblood in your veins since your two biggers brothers has been div.1 players since long before there even was divisions.(1996) ;)

#58
The problem is that 1-2 idlers will ruin the division.

We started looking for div1's and/or div1ish players yes, but that was after we joined div1 and after it came to my attention that knave and pai can play only one game per week max... IRL making things difficult as always :( So I'd say we were kind of forced to start looking. Havent found them yet unfortunately, so I guess we're also forced to play only one eql game/week and no pracs at all... :( Also medar not wanting to play eql anymore didnt help things by a bit...

my idea is so great i decided to double post to assure attention

How about this:
6 clan divs. This season there is 32 teams so make divs 6, 6, 6, 7, 7 or something.

Play double regular season (or even single, and play more seasons per year) 1-2 play championship game, 3-4 bronzegame and 5-6 play for relegation.
Winner of each div promotes, loser relegates.

Pros:
-More even matches
-More clans realistically play for their div gold
-No boring "BO5" 3 map rape playoff games (like many 1. vs 8. in div are)
-Rising one div doesn't mean insane leap in opponent skill level
-Every regular season game has much more meaning!

Cons:
?

-> WIN

How about this:

Divisions of 6 teams.. at the moment there are 32 teams in EQL so make div1-3 6 clans and 4-5 7 clans or so.
Play double regular season (or even single and play more seasons per year) and then 1-2 play for the championship and promotion, 3-4 play for bronze and 5-6 play for relegation.
From every div winner promotes and 6th place relegates. (no, the div1 winner doesn't swap with div5 last team)
Pros:
-More even matches
-Every regular season match has more meaning than now
-More clans realistically compete for winning their div
-Rising up one div doesnt mean insane difference in opponent skill level
-Reduces playoff BO5 rape games drastically (which are very stupid)
Cons:
?

-> WIN

@50 Well, BLT instantly started to recruit for div1 players. That's the key. ;)

@52&53 The most important talent is to be willing and able to prac more than others. It would be interesting to see how much more div1 guys have played compared to div3 for example.

With QW scene being so small it's unlikely that all of the div1 are exceptional talents. Such players might be more interested in games with bigger scenes and challenges anyway.

Fusion is one of those teams that had, and still has, players with talent and who pracced alot. Teamkillers is another good example but lately they recruited a few other talented players like ganon and moltas.

Check out Quakeklan, the less talented players quit along the way while the most talented (eventually it was only fog from the original quakeklan) stayed and they recruited better/more talented players to match their current division.

Yeye, some believe in talent and some dont.

Might've come off as a little harsh in that last post, anyway, practice IS enough to compete vs the best, winning on the other hand requires something else. But winning isn't the topic here anyway, there's only 2-3 teams that has a realistic chance of winning in each division.

#52,

Well, practice is enough to compete and not get raped 300-50 vs every team in a division. Disbanding all top teams wont change anything, Fusion wasn't as good as tvs, sr or todays fom. Yet we raped every div2 team 350-50 on any map, any day. Practice and playing better opponents got us that far.

I know Rikoll and some others will disagree (just different views of how things work) but everyone cant practice their way into the top. You need some talent. Thats why there even is a top, a middle and a bottom. Talent+practice makes you become good but just one of them isnt gonna cut it.

#49

Don't think anyone wants rape games. Maybe it's just sad to see div1 die and the competition attitude dead and burried.

#48
+1

Ofc now the problem is that everyone wants to the finals and chance to win, even if that's an illusion for most of the clans hence the division.
Imo divisions are the cancer of community of this size, and stopped most of the players evolving.

For example I'll say that if blt keeps praccing div1 clans this season and plays all games "seriously", they will mop the floors with every div2 clan after the season with such an ease, and next season they will start taking maps from div1 clans aswell. Dunno if that is what they want, but I sure hope so :)

Anyway, if the direction of div1 is gonna continue this way, it sure will look bad in no more than 1-2 seasons. Well..it looks bad allready.

NO! The boycott is the only and right way to solve this problem. I dont get what these top clans gets from rape games... Atleast for me it was so boring to play vs SR.

I agree with para, there's only a handful of team that even has a remote chance of winning anything in div2, div3 just as in div1. But its like the old saying "Better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven". Why move into a small division where every team is atleast a div better than your own team? The ONLY solution is to make a huge div1 with atleast 16 teams where everyone can atleast have some fun.

#44 how come all these idlers join div2 then? :)

#43 agreed about the clans. But atleast we have seen some clans make a comeback this season which is great! :)

I have a solution!
Let's start a boycot against two or three top clans and just wait they going to retire. After that they will join random clans and the gap is gone and we have equal games again!!!

What will happen if you gather 5 inactive players to one clan? How many games they will play? :)

Atleast I dont want to play games every week so its better not to start anything you wont finish. Like FT last season. But yeah I know Im not in that group you meant.... "old/new really good players".

Or...
They just prefer joining old friends instead of forming a team that probably will disband after one season.
Too bad that there's only a handful of CLANS in the QW community. Teams are not what some ppl are looking for.

Yeah its just sad that all of them either join div2 or idle.

quote: On the other hand, what's the point in improving when it actually means you're put into a division where you don't win a game instead of playing in a league in which you expect to win many games because you improved due to a lot of pracs or a new good player. Improvement means punishment.
-----
lol? Yeah it' spunishment because div1 has now beem diminished to only the TOP TOP teams on the scene instead of the top 1/3 or something similar.. As soon as blt stepped up they were looking for div1 players to beef up their overall team.

So what now if there were 8 teams like blt in div1, now suddenly sr/fom/sd/tks doesn't seem that important anymore. Sure they are likely to stay in top 4, Just as I'm sure the top 4 in div2 are pretty much set.

It's not like bottom half of div2 has a snowballs chance in hell of making it in the top there either, they are just content because of the larger division so they got more opponents equal, under and above.

Now being moved up to div1 is punishment because there are only much better teams.

I think one of the teams that are trying to close the gap is c88. We also know they won't have a big chance but it's still solid lineup.

There are many div1 players outthere to make at least 3 other solid div1 teams that could easily compete with c88 - and maybe that kind of action would attract old/new really good players to join those ranks and try to close the gap even more.

quote: Btw. in div1 (eql12) we (tVS) won games with (+3848/11maps=) 350 plus frags in each game so this 80 is a really equal score.
---
Actually it says 21maps/4613= 219 frags per map. So 350 is grossly exaggerated. Apart from that that is the top of the top lineup that can even make div1 teams look like div2, and they had some REALLY easy games. And to compare FU in div1 to old tVS in div1 is just a joke. Try compare overall to top 3 teams perhaps :)

Although I do agree that we should wait some games to see how div2 will develop before making any comments on that - however i still think we should have more teams in div1, regardless if you think you will ALSO get even games in div2 against some of the teams there.

Andy you are the man! You really put your words right... :)

As he mentioned I started my qwdm career in cg and then joined fu even cmf was offering me a contract. I thought it was more challenging... but now im too old for that :P

Atm Im just happy to play some qw again and helping fu with tactics. Maybe I (or we) will play in div1 next year when I get a new connection and some aiming skills :) who knows

By the way, on a slightly different matter. On the one hand some people speak about teams not wanting to improve and their laziness, not taking risks and effort etc.

On the other hand, what's the point in improving when it actually means you're put into a division where you don't win a game instead of playing in a league in which you expect to win many games because you improved due to a lot of pracs or a new good player. Improvement means punishment.

In this very case, you are talking about Diki (re)joining -FU-, the team he had already played for in Smackdown - more than 10 years ago. Once you start telling people not to play with their friends anymore because you are becoming too good, all kind of motivation gets eliminated.

@33: I don't think it's right to call this situation "bring a div0 player into that glorified happy div2 clan" when the questioned player had been with this team for ages. It's not as if FU "bought" a star player in order to win div2.

Last season Diki didn't play with -fu- because that would have made them (then) a div1 clan.

Chosen had a similar situation last year when a player wanted to join and play in div2. But him joining would have lifted the clan to div1, so it didn't happen.

Unless you have very motivated players who want to improve (rare), it's important to recruit so that you avoid ending up at the bottom of a div. It's not lame, it's good management. Losing too much can kill clans.

well put andy

"wow 33 comments" - I thought to myself. Was our game really that interesting? Then I noticed it was just another div-whine thread.

Everyone knew this was going to happen before the season begun, no reason to go all huge fuzz about it now. There are other similar clans/players in div2 as well, and they know who they are.

I will have to agree that it's really frustrating losing a game much based on a single player. However it's a teamgame and in the end the games were fun and close!

I would like to say good game to the entire FU clan. And Im sure you will show that youre capable of playing good even without Diki in the field later on this season.

So why again did they have to bring a div0 player into that glorified happy div2 clan that has managed such a long time without?

FU is a perfect example of a clan that most players romanticize about. They have been around for ages (earliest memories I have with them are from Villains I!), still own a website, participate basically every season and every league (no matter the rules), get their damn games played, prac occassionally and represent consistency that many teams lack.

Everyone knows FU never has been and are not among the very top teams. Placing them in div 1 onto the playground as punching balls ("filler material") for the stronger teams is kind of a punishment for being what on the other hand is glorified. FU is an excellent div2 team and if they win this season easily, they deserve it.

Chosen, Wake up, this is BULLSHIT!

#29 maybe in div3, all current div2 clans are clearly div1 material!

Btw. Diki is way beyond div2, hell it's not even common to see 10 teamkills in div1 rounds! Wonder why he gets so many frags? He rapes all the competition, including teammates!

So, are there any div2 teams I can join?

QW lives as long as people get so angry after losing.

#25 That list would ofc vary from season to season depending on the number of clans etc. Also, its very hard to draw an exact line.

But everyone will have a greater chance at playing in their preferred surroundings if they are upfront about it before we make the divisions.

The underlying problem is still that there arent any other incentives for playing in div1 except that it is challenging, and that does not cut it for the majority of the players.

#22 ofc the wrong team won. who doesnt want to win? :)

And about this whole div1 players who sneak into div2, well you could make a list of players you consider too good for div2 and say that if they wanna play eql they gotta play in div1 :).
Who knows it could work, and they are usually quite spread out so don't think alot of div2 clans would disband because of it.

:o games were kinda tight and I felt like we had a chance to take dm3 but screwed it up with like 3-4 mins left when we let diki take rl to ra.
Always gotta be a team who wins and if you will end up as the winner of div2 then losing by this amount is by no means bad.

But losing is always gonna piss me off and most other people aswell, and when you see diki with 70% effi each map and overall stats that none of his mates come near then it's easy to whine about it.
Ofcourse it's way too early to tell but it should also be remembered that fu finished 3rd last season after blt and koff, who aren't playing in div2 this season, which practically made you the top candidate to win div2, without diki.
And there lies my problem with the situation but it has nothing to do with fu, it's with admins allowing a top team to get such a player, making it even harder for the bottom teams.

Go fix kill them all! Whine lamers don't deserve any better!

So the wrong team won.

Well, we didn't wanna surf thru div3 anymore, we just took fix along and went for the div2 superstars! Last 2 seasons went just without single prac, but now we're motivated and might even play one during the season! Next season - DIV1.

We knew which clans we added to the divisions and the players they had. Everyone gets a little mad after a loss and ofc it feels extra lame when the other team had an ex-tvs players. Wouldnt you agree?

However, now clans consisting of 100% div1 players have even asked to join div2 after the league allready started. Teams who are already good have also tried to add div1 players. Anyway, they can forget about getting to play under such circumstances making such demands.

So who again was raped yesterday? I must have been watching a different game than some of you. This time div1 = div0 and div2 is div 1.5 + some others. Who cares about divisions, we are getting to see some tight games (like yesterday) and that is the only thing that matters.

BLT for president! Ohoy all, we still need 2 ACTIVE div1'ish players for our lineup to smash the div1 najbs! If you feel like up for the task, let us know @ irc #blt !