Very cool effort from Oclan. A-playoff contenders? :)

wp, gg :)

Good game guys!! Very well played

It was alot closer than I expected, even with the addition of Rikoll i didnt think it would be this close. it was indeed very good games, at least for us. Not sure if they had fun playing with higher ping than they are use to thou. Anyways, thanks for the games.

Vegeta, yeah thanks about understanding... and sorry my whine in the game. Well yep, the game was good and we had to be really focused not to give too much frags in the end of dm2. Ofc our pings are nothing to compared for yours and you are doing a nice job when participating eql.

I have been a modem player also, so I know kind of what is it like, that time we didn't have antilag and some cute and Z fuckers had 13ms... We also didn't know about minping then. But when your playing a lot with high ping it just starts to work somehow as we can see from your performance. Now when I have played only with 13ms, 38 is still playable but I don't know what happens with 51. Somehow I totally lose touch. Maybe it is also something with settings, minping -999 is not good etc. The least I could do is to prac hour or two with high ping, then it should not be a issue. But have to say that Xantom's ping was way too high..

And what it comes to comments: "You will win anyway". I wasn't so sure and as the score shows it was not an easy win. All except Milton are so rusty, this was our 3rd game in two years? :) If we always give advantage to opponents, we will lose in some point and our fragrank isn't that good ;)


Conclusion

It was good games. With 1-2 less mistakes on each map we actually could have won both of them. Considering we've only played around 3-5 maps together totally, this is not a bad score anyhow. Rusty or not, tVS experience and merits together gotta count for something.

Metagame-wise: Extremely entertaining with yet another ping whine session with you guys, specially vs us. You go, girl!

Well I cant help but feel that there is something wrong with antilag when players have around 100ms or more. Mainly getting shot at before they are rounding corners and I start seeing the enemies.

Their SG and LG aim gets hilariously good at the same time my own aim gets even worse since I am on 50ms or more.

Still, all of the Oclan players are way better than me so they should kill me everytime anyway.

And please dont get me wrong. Im not saying they win or get alot better because of it. They are all good players.

But when you start to let the game predict stuff because you want to even out the ping I think you wander down the wrong path.

So when you got high ping, it is a disadvantage for you. When your opponent got high ping, it is a disadvantage for you. GG logic.

Antilag isn't some feature that does magic tricks for you once you reach 100ms. At higher ms it just becomes more apparent.

"Mainly getting shot at before they are rounding corners and I start seeing the enemies."

This will also never be the case. The opposite might happen, and is reported and reproduced to happen; sometimes you get hit even when running behind a wall. This has rightfully been a topic of discussion. Before you start bashing a feature you should at least have a minor understanding of it.

Yes I knew I would get that kind of reply but I wrote what I did anyway.

It is not about me losing. They deserved to win vs csn. It just feels crappy when playing.

If I feel that the game is very different when I am on 50 ms vs 90-100ms opponents, who also play all their officials at these pings, it gets alot harder for me to play at my usual, low, level. So I play even worse while they are on their everyday ping, atleast official game wise.

I think the games vs oclan and other north american clans was alot smoother before antilag. Maybe its just me but it feels weird. Dont know hot to explain it better.

QW has a good setup even without antilag and I think that these kind of doctored ways to even out ping makes the game worse.

TL;DR

Oclan dont win because of antilag.
Oclan dont win or play good because their opponents are forced to a higher ping.
Antilag feels weird.
50+ms is hard to cope with when you are used to 13-38.

Dont wanna end up in lenghty discussions that will ultimately lead to everyone getting pissed and getting on the wrong foot with everyone.

Fair enough. Often something lies implicit in a sentence, or can be misinterpreted in a certain way anyhow.

If you don't want a discussion, and don't want to question Oclans actual skill, I just don't see point of your posts if not to let go of some frustration over a lost game or similar? Not that everything gotta have a point, by all means... :)

#6 Rikoll "Rusty or not, tVS experience and merits together gotta count for something."

Yes, they did.

High ping makes the weapon balances go wrong. It doesnt affect sg and lg which are instant but affects to rl, so rl gets weaker than it should be compared to those... So you cant play your normal game when sg enemies are rushing towards you, you have to adapt... and its difficult if you never play with that kind of ping :)

General frustration about the weird feeling antilag and high ping leaves me with I guess.

Frustrated about losing a 4on4 game? Nah, Im used to that now. This and last season has actually been quite fun since I havent really played vs the absolute top teams that much before. Check all seasons before EQL6 or something if you wanna see some real butthurt Hooraytio whine. Not to mention nqr2-8 atleast. :)

It was a really nice game and I think we went far better than what we expected. With ping problems or no, we all respect tVs, it's a top team, with amazing players and a wonderful teamplay. Even if we lost, I think we all felt quite happy to be able to give a challenge for a top team and create some good and unexpected entertain for a Sunday night.

Also, just for information, vegeta, blood dog, squeeze and the other americans from oclan are not that used to play with high ping. Most of the time they play in US with 20ms, and only on weekends they come to play on EU. Sometimes we can find a prac and they can warmup just before an EQL match, sometimes not.

It's not a surprise. If you going to play vs oclan, prac before with 50ms. One game should be enough.

I'm very impressed with your performances at such high pings.

For me, jumpy ping above 38 (+pl) is just another game, I don't enjoy it at all. Waiting 20 min for the bus is more fun.

Add another 40 ms and you'll win, remove 40 ms and you'll get raped.

Nice to see we still can cause a a lot of discussion xD
Well Oclan is a really good clan with good players and we knew before the match that it is going to be tight... that is also obviously the reason for some prematch whine. Also you are really nice guys, too bad you took Rikoll the dick, fucker, bitch.. ouh did I just write that? Sorry! But yep I see Rikoll's point to get me defend ourselves or something like that. I'm not doing that but can reply with: "If I wouldn't have died with the first rocket, I would have got 150 frags".

Ihminen had a really good point, all weapons except RL are ok with high ping. So if some players are specially good with rocket but sucks with other weapons... you just him lose strengths.

antilag is just unpredictable. Especially lg and sng is fucked up. tell me how do you dodge the fake lg bolt, or fake nails? nevermind, i dont play this game anymore because of this fucked up feature, but i would like to :/ I think oclan can rape the div1 scene, if they pracc more in eu. 3 high pinged div1 player with 1 div0 player is a deadly combination with antilag, watch out.

Antilag is the best hing that happened to this game in a loooong time :) and afaik it doesn't affect ng and sng.

Yep, have to agree that antilag is the best thing for qw in last three years. And I really hope us players keepls playing in eu even we are whining. We just have to prepair better.

Interesting discussion!

First, thanks for the games, it was a lot of fun :D I think all of us were surprised that we did so well. I think I'm the one who said "You will crush us anyway" before the match. I really meant it and expected it, I wasn't just saying that to be cheap and get you to ready up with high ping.

My perspective on antilag (I don't know what the code looks like, just what it does to me as a player):

There's nothing magical or "doctored" about it. Without it, I would get about 5% lg (10% if I'm lucky), making the game completely useless. It's not even worth playing since all strategy goes out the window and you lose 200/200/lg vs 100/0/lg. With antilag, my lg % is normal (NOT better than normal!). I usually get between 25%-30% lg regardless of if I'm playing with 12ms or 120ms, which in some ways is proof that antilag doesn't give you an unfair advantage, it just makes the game playable. Our sg/lg % does not become "hilariously good", it just becomes normal.

The reason it might seem strange to a low ping opponent is because you might get hit while you think you just turned a corner. From our perspective as the high ping player, we hit you just before you turned the corner. The difference is the 100ms from our perspective and yours. It's a little subtle, but it's important to understand that antilag doesn't let me hit you once you escaped around a corner. In your reality you think you just made it to safety, in my reality I hit you right before you turned the corner. That's the nature of lag. You're just used to playing with people who all have around the same latency. The higher the ping difference, the more you might notice some "strange" side effects which are just caused by the time delay. I agree with Rikoll when he says "Antilag isn't some feature that does magic tricks for you once you reach 100ms. At higher ms it just becomes more apparent", and disagree with the comments about letting the game predict stuff for you or dodging fake lg or nails (the nails aren't even affected by antilag?).

From what I understand, I think the only legitimate complaint about antilag is getting hit when you believe you just turned a corner to safety, but even that is pretty minor (the effect lasts for <100ms due to the ping difference). Again, that is just my perspective, I don’t know what the code tries to do or if there any bugs. This disadvantage is more than compensated for by the remaining problems with high ping:

Antilag does not help with movement or rl, which are obviously critical parts of the game. It sucks when you think it's safe to fire rl but end up hitting the corner (which wasn’t there on your screen) and hurting yourself. It sucks when you have quad and are firing rox at someone that is coming right at you with sg: you think they are far enough away that it's safe to shoot, but end up boring on them because they're closer than you thought. I also think (not entirely sure) that antilag doesn't help you pickup/switch/fire weapons as fast. It really only helps your sg/lg aim %. A normal lg % doesn’t help if you can’t even fire the lg at the same time as your 12ms opponent. This is especially obvious on dm4. Try to rush the lg/middle area and fire a weapon before dying from a real 12ms shaft. Try to pickup the lg and actually switch to it before dying. It doesn't work as well as a real 12ms connection :)

Finally, believe it or not, none of us are really "used to" playing with high ping (except for squeeze, that guy is an animal and rapes with any ping). We do play in NA relatively frequently, even if the scene here is even quieter than it is in EU. So, it's always difficult to just show up for an EQL match and play with 90+ when I play with < 50 during the week (sometimes < 26). Constantly transitioning back and forth makes it hard to get used to a particular ping and get good at it. I will agree that we do have more experience making this transition, but it's never pleasant. I also agree that if you've never tried it, it does take some getting used to (sorry Xantom, I totally get how it was a frustrating experience playing with 70+ for the first time). I still notice a big difference when I play with 130 on pangela, 105 on foppa, and 90 on the UK server.

Anyway, none of this is whine. I’m just trying to explain what antilag does and how it is just a small step in evening the playing field. It’s a long way from giving us an unfair advantage :) I do appreciate the EU clans agreeing to play on the UK server even though they’re not used to 51+.

Love,
BLooD_DoG(D_P)

hey guys, does anyone have the demos and is willing to upload them? unfortunately I couldn't find'em...

zip of both maps here:
http://gc.froschroom.com/6_vs_tvs_egl16.zip

..not sure why I named that zip 'egl' - I'll blame my hangover for that one :(

hey thanks man. never mind the typo ;)