Oblivion out of EQL3

2006-04-18 13:46 by sassa

Oblivion has been kicked out of EQL after getting their second warning.
They have been caught ghosting in their game vs SSC and all of their games will be deleted.
We have been talking about this case for 1 week now to gather all the information and have finally made a decision.

Some info about the ghosting that accured:

Fnosk joined their vent channel not knowing that it was a EQL game and helping his teamm8s during the first map (dm3). I saw/listen to this and took a talk with him in another ventrilo channel to ask him what he was doing and he answered me that it was not EQL, it was pracc.

Directly after he found out that it was a EQL game he told me that he was very sorry about what he did but he didnt knew it was EQL.

Even though he didnt knew, his teammates should have told him to go the fuck out of the vent channel or shut up and not give hints about the enemys.
This is their seccond warning (first warning was given when they played with hagge even though he wasent in their playerlist).

Many teams use mm3 and if you want to be sure that they dont cheat ask an admin to step i,n their vent channel and see how many ppl they got there.

Im very sorry to have lost a team like Obvilion in eql and hope that they will be back for EQL4.

/The EQL-team

Ghosts, like ladies, never speak till spoke to
- Richard Harris Barham

---

Comments

#101 2006-04-18 16:51 by mipa (80.186.154.XXX)

hehehe @ "the sassa" @ #96

#102 2006-04-18 16:51 by contender (81.236.21.XXX)

lucky for me then that sasha removed my comment earlier :)))))

#103 2006-04-18 16:52 by JKova (80.221.17.XXX)

indeed it was, gaz, indeed it was. trashie is busted, no doubt about that :P

#104 2006-04-18 16:54 by trashie (81.235.129.XXX)

do i have to say sorry in public now? it will take a while to freeze hell ya know :< pretty damn warm down there.

#105 2006-04-18 16:54 by fog (81.216.124.XXX)

#101

Haha, Ups.. Intentionally I was gonna write something else but forgot to erase it all :D

#106 2006-04-18 16:55 by daiz (82.209.190.XXX)

[23:15] <daizuki> finns regler mot ghostning?
[23:16] <djevulsk\a> jas?
[23:16] <djevulsk\a> kolla du
[23:16] <djevulsk\a> jag hittar d? inga
[23:16] <djevulsk\a> ?ven om vi ghostade f?rst?s

spelar det roll om det finns regler eller inte? :] let the drama begin! xD

#107 2006-04-18 16:59 by murdoc (213.84.248.XXX)

someone translate?

#108 2006-04-18 16:59 by contender (81.236.21.XXX)

och?

#109 2006-04-18 17:01 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Something like

daizuki: are there rules against ghosting?
dje: check yourself
dje: i don't find anything
dje: even if we ghosted of course

#110 2006-04-18 17:08 by peppe (82.212.77.XXX)

HAH!

#111 2006-04-18 17:36 by ?ke Vader (217.210.101.XXX)

Sorry for not replying earlier than this. I've been in school all day without computer access etc.

From what i've read so far many of you think that this is a Sassa decision on his own. This, however, is not really the case. Sure, Sassa called the shot (made the newspost) but we have discussed this some time after the game took place and a majority of the crew agreed on it. I can't say that the evidence is very strong though as the only version I've heard is from Sassa and i assumed that he discussed this with the Oblivion guys just after it happened. However, as Sassa is an admin and heard what was going on ("fat enemy rl @ lifts") i think that's enough. I can't imagine a person in that position making things up just to go through with some personal vendetta because of stuff that happened in another tournament. That would just be childish and a serious violation of the power that he actually possess.

Further on, regarding the EQL ruleset i think it's lacking too in some area to be honest. When people like Gaz goes on about the fact that ghosting is not in the rules in these comments then i agree with him, but at the same time i think it's a bit silly to go on like that. Sure, it should be in the rules but it's not a smaller misconduct because it's not in there and anyone with some common sense will agree with me.

#112 2006-04-18 17:36 by zanne (81.228.217.XXX)

First off to what I wrote in a total different collum, which however could be refered or used in this collum;
What I said to Fix and Paradoks on IRC is none of your business, but for the records I never asked Fix to appologize in public, I never asked anyone to use my argument to turn the league EQL around and complain about us admins - I simply stepped in because I didnt like what I read, Fix however took what he thought was his responsibility as a grown up mature and appologized in public, which I find very nice of him.

We might have problems with one another but it doesnt belong in the public and at least I dont expect it from Quakers, so stop it.

However, I'd like to comment this collum as an admin and not as a quaker, as an admin I would agree with the decision that has been made, all though Im not gonna vote about it, neither am I gonna have anything to do with it other then agreeing since I was not here when it happened.
How can you guys blame the rules? I mean comon, every single little quaker out there realizes that ghosting is considered as cheating and that cheating is not allowed in any official games, and I think that everyone also has to agree with me when I say that it's the teams own responsibility of knowing whether it's an EQL game or not - dont even speak more about that.

When it comes to insulting Sassa or the EQL Crew for making this decision, well sure, flame on, embaress your self - I dont believe this to be any kind of revenge, but a simple and correct imo action from the admins.

I have however read some interesting ideas when it comes to problem solving in this issue and I will consider it with the rest of the admins.

And yeah, stop insulting one another HERE, it doesnt serve any purpose.

#113 2006-04-18 17:43 by TheEvilDog (81.233.122.XXX)

Stop whining about Sassa, he owns, i love you Roz! He's like a father to us in jmk, so we love him!!!

#114 2006-04-18 17:46 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Yeah Ake, it's common sense, but it's still a good idea to have everything written down for the sake of reference. You can copy/paste from NQR rules if you wish :P

#115 2006-04-18 17:57 by contender (81.236.21.XXX)

TheEvilDog, I could't care less of what Sasha is to you, I still dont like him.

#116 2006-04-18 17:57 by TheEvilDog (81.233.122.XXX)

Just because you cheat and got owned? cry.......

#117 2006-04-18 17:59 by nakoz (80.217.82.XXX)

"We have been talking about this case for 1 week now to gather all the information and have finally made a decision."
---------------
Nice gather, maybe something like this;
ake: what happened sassa?
sassa: o was ghoasting!!!!!!! *angry*
ake: really? what should we do?
sassa: BAN THEM! 4-LIFE!!!!
ake: have you spoken to them?
sassa: noooo, just with fnosk and he is sad!!!!
sassa: plz BAN!
ake: anyone oppose?
....
ake: ok, consider it done.
sassa: *jumps on the table shanking ass*
---------------

or how did you gather it?

#118 2006-04-18 17:59 by Svante (213.64.91.XXX)

Hi everyone, I play for Oblivion and this is probably my first appearance on any QW-forum since 2000.

Att: Sassa.
Do you honestly believe that we've used Ventrilo in any unfair way during any EQL-game, NQR-game or official game of any sort what so ever?

Does anyone actually believe that Fnosk, the best of good guys, is a cheater using Ventrilo as his tool?

If you, or anyone, answer yes to the questions above then I question your common sense, if not sanity. And all respect is out the window...

This discussion, and I use that in the loosest sense of the word, has become some kind of personal war. Quite childish if you ask me. Let me just make this clear:


We have not cheated, in any way, ever.


Regards,
Svante

#119 2006-04-18 17:59 by moris (146.102.98.XXX)

i honestly thought we were playing qw for fun and not money. apparently not?

#120 2006-04-18 18:02 by ?ke Vader (217.210.101.XXX)

Sassa told us what he had witnessed and left us that lift quote and in my ears it sounds like ghosting. In what other way should we do it unless it's like that? It will be impossible to prove anything at any time if we can't even believe what an admin is saying?

#121 2006-04-18 18:02 by moris (146.102.98.XXX)

just to make sure my comment is not misunderstood. im not trashing neither side in this conflict. just seems to me, we (read community) have way2many arguments in the past few weeks around these 2 tiny sites (read eql/nqr) and few dozens of clans. chill

#122 2006-04-18 18:12 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

That's the only evidence? Sassa saying that he said that? Is he 100% certain that it was FNOSK that said it and not another Oblivion player that was actually playing?

I'll repeat, if it was ghosting then sure, the decision seems just, but the evidence to support the case for the prosection is flimsy. Let's just say we have thrown out cases in NQR with with MORE evidence than this.

Anyway, I know fnosk is coming to make a post soon, it will probably be a big long essay :P Maybe we can know a few things for certain then.

#123 2006-04-18 18:15 by Max Rebo (85.226.204.XXX)

Yay, thank god there are no Mary J Blige fans in the QW scene!

#124 2006-04-18 18:17 by Smala (194.236.219.XXX)

<3 drama

#125 2006-04-18 18:18 by fnosk (130.240.202.XXX)

What you all have been waiting for?
?Fnosk in da house!

Just like Hagge wrote, we hade played a few games before this one vs SSC. Like always I stayed on the Ventrilo server so I could hear my mates while spectating the game.
This sort of interaction between us clanmates makes this game worth playing! As long as the cheering does not disturb the fellow teammates in their game, I think it just makes it more fun and social (spot on Manny!).

Anyhow... Throught half the first map I made some cheering like ?Nice one?, ?Well done!?etc. Then I suddenly heard Sassa?s voice shouting about ghosting an EQL game. I realized I had made a comment about some enemy at lifts (like in the map position on DM3). I calmed him down telling him it was just a practise game (bacaus that was really what I thought it was!) Then Sassa apologized and said that he wouldnt say anything even it it was EQL. I was like ?Yeah, whatever..?.

When gladly telling my friends what had happened they told me it actually was an EQL game. ?Crap?, I thought and told Sassa about it and said it was clumsy of me.
In spite of what he erlier told me about not mention anything even if it was EQL, he said he had to tell the rest of the EQL admin crew. ?Sure?, I said. ?You can tell them what you want. I?ll stand for the comment I did?. After Sassa had consulted the other admins he told me we got an inofficial warning and only the admin crew would know about it. OK, thanks!

But hey, you all knows the rest! Suddendeath (Sassa?s clan got banned out of NQR (with djevulsk as an admin) and a week (?) later clan Oblivion is out of EQL ? all cheeters with me in the front!

Usually I would have muted my microphone while spectating an EQL game, but this time I move to another channel just to make it clear for Sassa I had no intentions of ghosting.

I would STRONGLY point out that no clanmate of mine, what I know of, even picked up on that comment I made of the enemy at lifts! As I told Sassa, I stand for my actions and therefor I put all the cards at the table in this post. Although it makes me sad that this ridiculous thing blew up in proportion like it did... So why did it? I think it?s quite obvious!

Thanks for all the post of support! <3

/ Fnosk ? a proud member of clan Oblivion ? a great bunch of guys!

#126 2006-04-18 18:22 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

I don't really understand how the eql-admins "works".. they let clans that use fakenicking players (not even playing in the team, nor the division) go although they admitted they had cheated, but they ban for this?

#127 2006-04-18 18:24 by Ari (84.251.171.XXX)

hmm, perhaps sassa should have recorded something? I mean, if he was there trying to prove something I guess he must have gathered some solid evidence regarding this matter before he accuses anyone? Word of an admin isn't solid evidence due to recent shit that has been going in nqr etc. :<

#128 2006-04-18 18:25 by Ari (84.251.171.XXX)

Although, that's why I love you swedes, always bringing up some nice drama and spicing up scene :P

#129 2006-04-18 18:25 by willg (217.209.96.XXX)

Whenever I played with obliv. in pracs specs kept quiet.

The obvious sollution for this is QTV.

However when an admin saw this happen during a game, he should blow his wistle and show his red card right away.

If He actualy was in the channel, he could just have shouted 'STOP' whatever.

Banning a team is not the sollution in nqr/eql. remove a few points. Let opponent pick both maps in remaining games, play with 3 players for 5mins. whatever. No ban plz. Remember next season isnt until after the summer :(

#130 2006-04-18 18:27 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

ok now we have got it all confirmed and sure I must say that you can ban us from cheating if you want to, but this is a fkn game for fun and not something that should be taken seriously? it's also an accident and I can't understand at all how the admin crew can think this is the right decision? I thought this league was made to make people play some more qw? it's not like we cheated on purpose with aimbots or anything.. bah guess everything is decided already, but this is just ridiculous and nothing else..

#131 2006-04-18 18:29 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

completely agree with willg about how you should punish a clan for something like this..

#132 2006-04-18 18:33 by ?ke Vader (217.210.101.XXX)

In response to Fnosk: While the ghosting may have been unintentional it still was giving your team a small edge, even if they heard it or not. It's all a matter of how strict we want to be i guess. Imo QW should be a gentlemen's game though and if you want us to reconsider all of this once more then i'm sure we can arrange that.

In response to Hagge: In EQL a team may receive one warning before they're kicked out of the league if they misbehave once more. Oblivion's first rule violation was when they used you (Hagge) in a game before you were approved by admins.

<3 to all of you!

#133 2006-04-18 18:35 by fog (81.216.124.XXX)

Agree with #129

#134 2006-04-18 18:41 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

yeah I know ?ke.. still I don't think it's enough to totally kick a team out of the leauge.. a penalty should've been more fair for such minor "cheats" or whatever you want to call it.. maybe you all can have a meeting and discuss another penalty with mr willg? you can take all or points away or whatever :(((

one thing is for sure though.. we just wanna play some fun games of quake and that's imo what oblivion always have been famous for.. never seen a clan with so little whine or anything like that.. everything is just for fun in this clan and that's imo why it feels so wrong that we now got kicked.. doesn't everybody know we're the nicest clan left in qw? :C

#135 2006-04-18 18:42 by trashie (81.235.129.XXX)

omg! i just got the bestest idea! lets do a league where ALL cheating is legal? just to see how far people can go to win a game. would be really cool to see how much cheats there actually is and can be used? rofl. this sounds COOL! i wanna spec a game where clans ghost, have wall/waterhacks aimbots and shiet =) "Cheats 4 teh win league 2006" ilf will love this!

#136 2006-04-18 18:44 by trashie (81.235.129.XXX)

and we kick clans that dont cheat.

#137 2006-04-18 18:45 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

btw just have to add one thing.. when ilf and his clan whatever they now were called cheated ONLY ilf got kicked? but for this you kick a whole clan out of the league? guess aimbotting isn't an as serious "cheat" as accidently saying one thing in vent because you thought it's prac.. GG?

#138 2006-04-18 18:46 by peppe (82.212.77.XXX)

they were kicked out, but returned next season, just as -sd- and [o] will(I hope)

#139 2006-04-18 18:47 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

apparently trashie doesn't understand anything what people have been saying above, but please forgive him.. he actually doesn't mean to do any harm..

#140 2006-04-18 18:47 by trashie (81.235.129.XXX)

yes i do.

#141 2006-04-18 18:48 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

dunno if that's anything we would want to do? hopefully there will be some new league instead of eql that we can participate in

#142 2006-04-18 18:49 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

omg *hides*

#143 2006-04-18 18:50 by error (213.114.99.XXX)

I cant believe this comment by you hagge "..as accidently saying one thing in vent because you thought it's prac..". This proves exactly what kind of a clan O is. Good decision by the admins.

#144 2006-04-18 18:54 by xer0 (81.231.187.XXX)

agree with error!

#145 2006-04-18 18:54 by trashie (81.235.129.XXX)

fan va allvarliga alla e nuf?rtiden. kan vi inte bara vara sams? *hug gaz*

#146 2006-04-18 19:00 by angua (82.182.32.XXX)

sluta sug mm3-balle och b?rja spela quake ist?llet s? blir allting mycket b?ttre.

#147 2006-04-18 19:02 by streetrobban (85.226.240.XXX)

#146 angua, word :D

we got this posted i #o a few minutes ago from a guy that wishes to remain anonomys :)

[14:29] Sassa: dude here ?
[14:30] anonomys: ye
[14:30] Sassa: look at eql site
[14:30] Sassa: make a .qw about it
[14:30] Sassa: dont mention me
[14:30] Sassa: ;)

#148 2006-04-18 19:03 by ?ke Vader (217.210.101.XXX)

Hagge, it was actually i who pushed for not kicking the whole noname clan when Ilf cheated. That's because i thought that the other members maybe/probably were unaware of the situation.

When there's ghosting going on then the whole team is interacting (listening) thus the clan should be punished.

#149 2006-04-18 19:05 by menth0l (82.181.141.XXX)

That settles that then. If fnosk gave away an enemy position while speccing that's clearly ghosting and warrants a ban.

#150 2006-04-18 19:06 by nas (83.226.240.XXX)

hahaha, kn?cker mig :), im actuallt happy we got banned from this im my opinion pretty lame league with alot of bad rules and realy lame admins, (Hi wzp sassa?), ok dont trust us when we say "-We didnt do anything wrong, it was a misstake", trust sassa,, ok i get it.. But can ANYONE of u honestly say that we EVER acted with bad sportmanship or missbehaved in any way?

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