EQL Summertour & Prizepool EQL4

2006-05-31 11:24 by zanne

For everyone who likes to stay active during the summer, we'll host EQL Summertour starting in late June and ending in mid August, a signup form will be here soon.

In other news, the winners of Division1 EQL4 will recieve some money, Im (zanne) currently dealing with some sponsors about a prize pot to the winners, this will only be for Division1 and the reason for that seems to me be quite obvious. I really hope that clans practice alot during the summer and EQL summertour and that this perhaps could light a new fire to the quake scene - More about this shortly.
Dont expect too much thought, we're looking at perhaps 4-500? for the winning clan, ofcourse it would be nice to have more, but hey this is a 10 year old game we're playing :)

Have a nice summer everyone and Im looking forward to see your clan in EQL Summertour!

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Comments

#1 2006-05-31 11:37 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)

nice done zanne, a pricepool owns. Think of 100'000 in the pot; that would get all the good players back (atleast for awhile) such as dag griff etc. I would easily share 1/10 of a million to live that :) glhf in summertour, we (sd1) won't participate.

#2 2006-05-31 11:41 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)

Sorry to hear that you wont participate in the summertour, but you might be back for some heavy action in EQL4? :)

Even if the prizepool is rather small it's a good start, if we get the players back the interest at the sponsors rise, and eventually even the prizepool will rise. I my self will donate 100? to the prizepool since I feel that a start is always something.

Anyway, GG!

#3 2006-05-31 11:43 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)

oh, even more nice zanne! \0/
EQL4 here we come...

#4 2006-05-31 13:39 by -insane- (83.27.155.XXX)

Really nice of you Zanne but i think you should reconsider bringing money into qw, just imagine the pingwhine when clans play about the real money .... Its hard now (usually takes 30-60 mins of whining before the game starts) it will be like 10x harder with money involved B<

#5 2006-05-31 14:44 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)

insa: you can eliminate pingwhine with good rules set.

not that ppl will stop whine about it at all, but you could say strictly what to do in given situation and cut the argue.

point is to define all typical 'whine' situation and set a rule how to handle it.

aint gonna by easy and will coz 200comments before it's done, but once it's done -> it's done.

overall i like the idea of bringing the money to qw coz of one thing: this should stop the shit we have right now, where the final games of EQL isnt played coz of players not having much enough will to sit, grab the mouse and just play it.

anything that will make div1 clans play their games (ON TIME !) is good.

#6 2006-05-31 15:11 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Prizemoney is the worst thing that can happen to QW 4on4. There is already enough drama and whining about game conditions - not just pings - without the added factor that the winner will take some money.

Sure it'll be nice for the winner, but I really believe that it would be a case of QW selling what little soul it has left for the sake of giving away a prize that is not really that necessary.

#7 2006-05-31 15:12 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Btw, a tour is when you make a journey around something. E.g. "I'm taking a tour around the coast of Sweden". It doesn't work in the context of a league at all :P

#8 2006-05-31 15:13 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Also stop with the SwedishisationofEnglishbyremovingspaces ;)

#9 2006-05-31 15:34 by -insane- (83.27.155.XXX)

The other solution might be having an objective (not Sassa like) admin for every div1 game since there will be like max 3-4 games happening per week thats possible. Admin would decide who has to reruote etc according to average pings (not some weird factors like "hes used to that" etc.)

#10 2006-05-31 16:07 by aikon (213.113.65.XXX)

gaz u really seem to hate everything about eql =)

#11 2006-05-31 16:18 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)

gaz-> it's not THAT big money.
imo all it will do is increasing the motivation of clans to play their games.

inactivity is the biggest problem of QW nowadays, especially in higher divs.

whining have been a part of this game since the begining and will be despite the prizemoney involved, dont take it as an argument against anything.

#12 2006-05-31 16:26 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)

It's sad that you dont like the idea Gaz, but I dont believe your words here. In my opinion each and every quake player will have more to play for if we had a prizepool. I believe in making the QW Scene bigger, they havn't changed the graphics of soccer in 100 years, why should they in a computer game?

I have alot of friends/contacts who recently stopped playing Quake3, when I asked them why they answer it's because there's no money involved - I think the same goes with QW, and actually we wouldnt mind getting some new names to the scene right?

I also belive that players like your self, stuck in a division below division 1 will have more to play for.

Know this, the prize pool does not have anything to do with trying to make EQL bigger than NQR, the last thing I want is a war between the 2 great leagues we have - when I hosted EQL I clearly took distance from that shit by speaking with some of the NQR crew about it before I did it.

We'll always have whine, may it be pingwhine, personal aggresion whine or whatever, but that's not gonna stop me from trying to improve the scene - as someone says here, make the rules clearer and tougher and perhaps have an admin monitor each div1 game.

#13 2006-05-31 16:26 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)

I agree with highlander, it would only be motivating. And with strict rules/present admins it would work. And gaz, the englification of _not_ putting words together is ez the most shabby thing in swe-language, a.k.a. "saerskrivning". Observer the hyphen(-) in swe-language :)

#14 2006-05-31 16:57 by lol (81.183.158.XXX)

"In other news, the winners of Division1 EQL4 will recieve some money"
why would that motivate players to start qw (or higher div clans to play their games), since there isnt the slightest chance that they will even get close to div1, or beating top clans such as LA etc...

#15 2006-05-31 17:30 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Zanne: my opinion has nothing to do with creating a divide between NQR and EQL. I would just rather that we kept QW "for the fun", and I'm worried that the idea of "serious" competition will turn our community rather sour. I'm all for making our community bigger but if that means we are getting players who are only in it for the money then I'm not going to support that.

But please tell me how this will give me something more to play for? You said yourself that prize money will only go to division 1, and we are a top 5 div 2 clan. There is no way we can challenge the best clans, and therefore I see no personal incentive for me to support this idea.

I guess I'm just an idealist who doesn't want to see this great game selling out.

#16 2006-05-31 17:32 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

bps: I'm aware of this sarskrivning thing, someone told me about it before. But still, no need to inject English with sar skrivning eh ;)

#17 2006-05-31 17:49 by willg (217.209.92.XXX)

i think sponsormoney should be used for servers, webpages, developement etc..

i've seen and tasted 'progaming' with prizemoney involved. And it is not fun.

#18 2006-05-31 17:54 by error (213.114.99.XXX)

I aree with willg. The money could be better used to get someone to make qtv better and easier to use. This qizmo thing is quite old.

#19 2006-05-31 18:21 by almeida (213.113.151.XXX)

i cant see any whine in CPL when the geeks plays CS

#20 2006-05-31 18:24 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

id say use the money for hosting good servers

we need more servers like wargamez where most clans can play with good conditions

and i totally agree with gaz and #14
new players will never win div1 anyway, so maybe they will play one season in div4-5 and get raped to hell and then quit because they figured out it takes like 10 years to be that good...

#21 2006-05-31 18:30 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

btw its great that eql will put up a summercup, activity will be zero without some sort of tournament during the summer

could someone also reset the "nqr winterladder 2" and make it nqr summerladder cuz ladder is also great during the summer (i know some think ladder is lol but some teams think its fun to add "pracs" to a site and count the points so to speak)

cya

#22 2006-05-31 18:36 by qmole (193.108.218.XXX)

I don't think prizemoney would change the attitudes of most div1 players. If people were in it for the money, they'd play q4 or whatever. We'll never attract the kind of progamers the top games get, so I don't think 'selling out' is a concern.

Furthermore, div1 is already ultra-competitive, to the point that clans will refuse to play each other in anything less than ideal conditions. It's all about winning. Recall the seasons where the top clans didn't have to (and so didn't) play each other during the regular season and yet still made the playoff spots.

I think there's perhaps too much leniency shown to the top clans. I'm sure you remember the days of the UKCL gaz where the time, server and even maps would be fixed for each game. Sure, most clans are capable of organising themselves, but add a little competition and things get more complicated. How many times has the EQL final been rescheduled now? 4? And how much delay will there be when it finally does get played?

Anyway, my point is, that adding prizemoney would force strict rules regarding pings, scheduling matches, walkovers and so on. It'd be difficult. But I suspect a *lot* more games will get played on time. That's a good thing. There'll inevitably be more players returning to the game, and more competition for the top spots, leading to better games overall. That's surely good. I think you're kidding yourself if you don't believe div1 players take it seriously already :)

However, willg (as always) makes a good point. I suspect it's more difficult to find sponsors for, say, developing QTV than it is for the leagues though. 500 euros isn't going to keep a coder interested for long :) I say, give zanne and the EQL guys a chance to try this out. It's a good start. If it doesn't work out, reflect and know better for next time.

#23 2006-05-31 19:12 by I fake since theres no money in (83.216.101.XXX)

Yes, agree with qmole. Well said/written!

#24 2006-05-31 19:18 by HighlandeR (83.20.162.XXX)

#14: you missunderstood me
I didnt mean that prizemoney will encourage noobs to play qw coz they can win some money, but that it could motivate clans like LA or CMF to play their games.
div1 season is just full of WO's and that SUX.
500 euro for a team is rather symbolic reward, greed wont own QW because of that.

#25 2006-05-31 19:38 by [dc]panczo (87.105.250.XXX)

great idea imo

#26 2006-05-31 20:39 by Stev (194.165.175.XXX)

Who decides who gets the prize money in each team? What about the people in the winning clan who can't make it into the first team? We could see trimming of top clans in order to reduce prize sharing. What effect would that have on the league?

#27 2006-05-31 22:03 by ?ke Vader (217.209.220.XXX)

To Stev:

Imo getting rid of some players to get more people to share the money sounds perfectly legit to me - as long as the clans play their games, i'm happy. :) I guess that the money would be handed out to the team leader who then split it among the players or whatever. These are only my personal thoughts though.

I think we should try this whole idea and see if it works out at all. Would be nice if it had some good effects on the league anyway. Maybe more of the good players in semi-good clans would step up to the task of creating a division 1 team? Who knows. ;)

However, i don't think this will attract loads of new players to the game. If that's what we're after then we need organizations like CPL to arrange QW tournaments on a regular basis and we all know that won't happen. ;)

#28 2006-05-31 23:34 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)

the clanleader should decide that imo.. and the admins pays as much money as the clanleader says to each player involved.. if a team wants to share the money on all their 20 members (cmf probably has 20 yeeeas) they can do that.. it's up to them!?!

#29 2006-05-31 23:35 by Smith (82.199.191.XXX)

haha goddamn commies!!!!! why don't you move to cuba and go cuddle with fidel?? money motivates people and is therefore great. 500? is squat really, but it's a start. i think it's a great effort to save this quickly dying game!

#30 2006-05-31 23:51 by angua (82.182.32.XXX)

"Furthermore, div1 is already ultra-competitive, to the point that clans will refuse to play each other in anything less than ideal conditions. It's all about winning."

Not true qmole, that is "specific-clan-issues". The only clans we have demanded equal pings versus are tvs and sr.

#31 2006-06-01 00:50 by qmole (193.108.218.XXX)

I guess I was exaggerating slightly angua :) Didn't mean to imply that happened *every* game. But I was talking about clans delaying so they have their best lineup, or until they'd had enough prac and so on. This seems to happen a lot in the big games... it's normal for the top teams to not play each other in the regular season. There's 3 matches in particular (and one between the two clans in the final) that didn't get played.

I guess it's because they don't want to lose unless they have to, or because there'd be so much whine it wouldn't be worth it.

I think the clans should make more of an effort to make the league a priority and work around it, instead of the league working around the players and making exceptions for the top clans. It's not difficult to leave one night a week free for qw. Everyone would like to have more prac, but I don't like seeing games continuously delayed :(

I know cMF will play with 'weaker' lineups, non-ideal pings and so on. But then, I wouldn't expect you to show any less sportsmanship if there was money involved. I don't think the attitude of those 'specific clans' is going to change a great deal either way.

#32 2006-06-01 07:58 by -insane- (83.27.155.XXX)

"I think the clans should make more of an effort to make the league a priority and work around it, instead of the league working around the players and making exceptions for the top clans"

Well said qmole :)

#33 2006-06-01 08:56 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)

I agree with qmole.
What we have to remember in all this is that it's still going to be a game, and for sure it wont get ruined because of 500?, that's just lame to state - QW hasnt been ruined by 3 followers, a gaming influence of CS nor by QuakeNet becoming CSNet, it wont get ruined by 500? - Im sure the old lady has some shelter for that.

What I want with this money is to encourage div1 players that rather play with newbies in a lower division to actually use their skill where it's supposed to be used, to encourage the div1 clans that's giving WO in a semifinal, to encourage players to come back to the scene and to make the div2 clans struggle to get up there rather than feeling comfterble in div2.
Players might leave their div1 clan because they dont get the playtime they want and create their own div1 clan, hence more activity in div1.

About the sharing of the prizemoney, it's simple, the money will be handed out to the leader of the winning clan, he then possesses the money and can do whatever he wants with it - I dont think anyone that has a div1 clan would screw his clanmates over, but that might become an issue (?)

#34 2006-06-01 08:58 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)

And btw Gaz, the obvious reason for not paying of a div2-3-4-5 winning clan is that players will just leave their higher div clan to join up with a lower clan just to win.

#35 2006-06-01 10:07 by ?ke Vader (217.209.220.XXX)

Maybe it's a bit bold but...maybe strictly scheduled games could be tried too...?

#36 2006-06-01 10:42 by Link (213.203.33.XXX)

Hi guys :>

Ordinary sports have done this for decades. So how do they do it? Answer: the players of the game pay a FEE to the FEDERATION. The FEDERATION can then EMPLOY ppl to set up all the necessary administration and organizing you need to satisfy the players needs. EVERYTHING costs money (backbone, servers, etc etc). In ordinary sports, all you do is show up and play. You dont need to call your opponent and ask "can you play now?". You dont need to find an arena to play on. The FEDERATION takes care of EVERYTHING. All you do is show up and play. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS...and that is the reason you pay for playing.

Since this has been going on for decades in ordinary sports, it is now common and normal to pay a fee to pay. You grow up with it.

As long as it is FREE to play (in other words: anarchy), you will never get it serious. Just look at MMORPG, they PAY to play, and get what they want, 24/7.

My point is: You can debate as long as you will about this issue, but as long as you dont do a; copy --> paste from ordinary sports to esports, it will never get serious...NEVER. Atm, the only thing that works in esports is LAN.

You got 1 major problem you need to deal with to get this right: PLAYING CONDITIONS MUST BE FAIR ... or who wants to pay if they are not? This can be done by routing every client better, and set up servers so that you get as equal ping as possible. In other words: "A virtual gaming ISP". Wouldnt you pay 7 EURO a month to get 30 ms all over EU? Wouldnt you pay 7 EURO a month to play your game just like ordinary sports does it?

Now think about how many millions of ppl who would pay for this, then add it up, and you understand the potential.

Until the above is solved: Forget it.

Sorry to say so :)

#37 2006-06-01 11:15 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

haha i was so waiting for link to comment on this...

I would pay up to 10euro a month to play qw if it meant better pings and better organization.

BUT i also think that qw is ok as it is if we dont involve prizemoney, i guess either we have links vision or we dont have prizemoney at all...

#38 2006-06-01 11:18 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

btw link, there are some ppl who dont enjoy playing with above 13ms 8)

#39 2006-06-01 11:22 by Link (213.203.33.XXX)

You need pricemoney. Because in order to get the best players to play on a FIXED SCHDULE, is to give them that.

Then you simply just add this rule:

YOU MUST PLAY ALL YOUR GAMES AT THE SCHDULED TIMES TO GET YOUR MONEY.

Problem solved.

Money = King.

#40 2006-06-01 11:24 by Link (213.203.33.XXX)

Sorry for spelling wrong =| Hooraytio: so what? If they dont want the money, then someone else will.

#41 2006-06-01 11:50 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

maybe, anyway i dont see this happening in qw, ppl paying to play and all the other ideas

but atleast you are correct about it, what you say must be done in order to have prizemoney

#42 2006-06-01 11:51 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

hmm my head keeps telling me to spell it "prizemoney"

id better go study instead..

#43 2006-06-01 12:20 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)

No no no, if we would take a fee for playing in EQL, we would lose 90% of the players we have, leaving 10% left (at most 30 players?) which is about 5-6 clans.

It should be free to play QW, I mean we dont sponsor teams here we dont have any serious business going on, everything is free. I dont believe Link and I absolutley dont agree with him that it's the only solution. However, a fixed schedule, an admin to monitor each game (since it's a fixed schedule) and if neither teams cant play for some reason the game will be a draw, if one team doesn't show up within, say a 10min margin, the other team gets W.O.
Doing this would also require stuff like "NO SPECIAL CASES" etc, Im sure alot of players would get pissed off but still that was my first intention with eql, however within the crew it got voted down. But this would clearly get more games played IMO, especially if there's money involved, it also means better orginization from the crew since we know exactly when the games are being played. We can also host more commentry on regular games in all divisions.

I think fixed schedule would solve a whole lot of problems, we'll discuss it I guess. There WILL however be a prizepool in div1, and if it dont work out then we'll just skip it in EQL5, but as for eql4 there will be a prizepool.

#44 2006-06-01 12:28 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)

*NOTE* It was NOT my first intention to piss players off, but to have a fixed schedule ;)

#45 2006-06-01 14:24 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

in the first season of fixed dates/times there will be some amount of WO since players are not used to it

but if u continue using it i guess most ppl will get used to it and start deciding what days are best for qw and try to stick to it

#46 2006-06-01 17:06 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)

many half-serious clans with maybe only 4-5 players will whine on scheduled games, because they'll give priority to "meet up with a friend"(or whatever else) rather than play the scheduled game. A possible future is therefor larger clans.

and I would personally support the idea of paying for better conditions and administration.

and gaz, even dag has been n00b. just start praccing 12h/day, and you might take home the 500?! it's not impossible, although it's a long journey :)

#47 2006-06-01 17:16 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)

Heh, 12 hours practice a day for just 500 euros isn't really that good value considering that I earn a good wage in my current dayjob :E

#48 2006-06-01 18:14 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)

now you forget the fun in it, 12h of qw feels like 5mins, but with daytime job it can feel like an eternity... qw ftw?

#49 2006-06-01 23:21 by ?ke Vader (217.209.220.XXX)

People can play football (both practice and matches) on scheduled times but not Quakeworld, that's a bit weird imo. I dunno if you need that bigger clans to get this thing working. But sure, clans with a core lineup of only four players with substitutes who almost never could play would have a hard time, i realize that.

Anyway, an idea like this is to get more games played and on specific dates. It will be easier for specs to keep track on (could have a _real_ "upcoming games" feature) and we would see more diversity in the squads in the group stages and then we get xxx super playoffs because that's when the serious business really begins and clans can aim to field all of their best players.

#50 2006-06-02 09:33 by QW-player (195.84.66.XXX)

Im just chocked to see ppl being opposed to something like a prizepool in QW. I think that its exactly whats needed now to blow some steam into division 1 with more matches and pracs played. We all know what a positive effect an active division 1 has on the lower divisions, and this combined with everyone working harder to get better would OF COURSE lead to a bigger and more active scene. To whine about whine is just a bad paradox and the whine before games is just a healthy sign that ppl still care about fair playing and winning in this game. And yes, an exact ruleset for handling ping is really one of the big challenges for eql 4, that and making people pay for not respecting the admins.

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