For everyone who likes to stay active during the summer,
we'll host EQL Summertour starting in late June and ending
in mid August, a signup form will be here soon.
In other news, the winners of Division1 EQL4 will recieve
some money, Im (zanne) currently dealing with some sponsors
about a prize pot to the winners, this will only be for
Division1 and the reason for that seems to me be quite
obvious. I really hope that clans practice alot during the
summer and EQL summertour and that this perhaps could light
a new fire to the quake scene - More about this shortly.
Dont expect too much thought, we're looking at perhaps
4-500? for the winning clan, ofcourse it would be nice to
have more, but hey this is a 10 year old game we're playing
Have a nice summer everyone and Im looking forward to see
your clan in EQL Summertour!
#12006-05-31 11:37 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)
nice done zanne, a pricepool owns. Think of 100'000 in the
pot; that would get all the good players back (atleast for
awhile) such as dag griff etc. I would easily share 1/10 of
a million to live that :) glhf in summertour, we (sd1) won't
#22006-05-31 11:41 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)
Sorry to hear that you wont participate in the summertour,
but you might be back for some heavy action in EQL4? :)
Even if the prizepool is rather small it's a good start, if
we get the players back the interest at the sponsors rise,
and eventually even the prizepool will rise. I my self will
donate 100? to the prizepool since I feel that a start is
#32006-05-31 11:43 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)
oh, even more nice zanne! \0/
EQL4 here we come...
#42006-05-31 13:39 by -insane- (83.27.155.XXX)
Really nice of you Zanne but i think you should reconsider
bringing money into qw, just imagine the pingwhine when
clans play about the real money .... Its hard now (usually
takes 30-60 mins of whining before the game starts) it will
be like 10x harder with money involved B<
#52006-05-31 14:44 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)
insa: you can eliminate pingwhine with good rules set.
not that ppl will stop whine about it at all, but you could
say strictly what to do in given situation and cut the
point is to define all typical 'whine' situation and set a
rule how to handle it.
aint gonna by easy and will coz 200comments before it's
done, but once it's done -> it's done.
overall i like the idea of bringing the money to qw coz of
one thing: this should stop the shit we have right now,
where the final games of EQL isnt played coz of players not
having much enough will to sit, grab the mouse and just play
anything that will make div1 clans play their games (ON TIME
!) is good.
#62006-05-31 15:11 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)
Prizemoney is the worst thing that can happen to QW 4on4.
There is already enough drama and whining about game
conditions - not just pings - without the added factor that
the winner will take some money.
Sure it'll be nice for the winner, but I really believe that
it would be a case of QW selling what little soul it has
left for the sake of giving away a prize that is not really
#72006-05-31 15:12 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)
Btw, a tour is when you make a journey around something.
E.g. "I'm taking a tour around the coast of
Sweden". It doesn't work in the context of a league at
#82006-05-31 15:13 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)
Also stop with the SwedishisationofEnglishbyremovingspaces
#92006-05-31 15:34 by -insane- (83.27.155.XXX)
The other solution might be having an objective (not Sassa
like) admin for every div1 game since there will be like max
3-4 games happening per week thats possible. Admin would
decide who has to reruote etc according to average pings
(not some weird factors like "hes used to that"
#102006-05-31 16:07 by aikon (213.113.65.XXX)
gaz u really seem to hate everything about eql =)
#112006-05-31 16:18 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)
gaz-> it's not THAT big money.
imo all it will do is increasing the motivation of clans to
play their games.
inactivity is the biggest problem of QW nowadays, especially
in higher divs.
whining have been a part of this game since the begining and
will be despite the prizemoney involved, dont take it as an
argument against anything.
#122006-05-31 16:26 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)
It's sad that you dont like the idea Gaz, but I dont believe
your words here. In my opinion each and every quake player
will have more to play for if we had a prizepool. I believe
in making the QW Scene bigger, they havn't changed the
graphics of soccer in 100 years, why should they in a
I have alot of friends/contacts who recently stopped playing
Quake3, when I asked them why they answer it's because
there's no money involved - I think the same goes with QW,
and actually we wouldnt mind getting some new names to the
I also belive that players like your self, stuck in a
division below division 1 will have more to play for.
Know this, the prize pool does not have anything to do with
trying to make EQL bigger than NQR, the last thing I want is
a war between the 2 great leagues we have - when I hosted
EQL I clearly took distance from that shit by speaking with
some of the NQR crew about it before I did it.
We'll always have whine, may it be pingwhine, personal
aggresion whine or whatever, but that's not gonna stop me
from trying to improve the scene - as someone says here,
make the rules clearer and tougher and perhaps have an admin
monitor each div1 game.
#132006-05-31 16:26 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)
I agree with highlander, it would only be motivating. And
with strict rules/present admins it would work. And gaz, the
englification of _not_ putting words together is ez the
most shabby thing in swe-language, a.k.a.
"saerskrivning". Observer the hyphen(-) in
#142006-05-31 16:57 by lol (81.183.158.XXX)
"In other news, the winners of Division1 EQL4 will
recieve some money"
why would that motivate players to start qw (or higher div
clans to play their games), since there isnt the slightest
chance that they will even get close to div1, or beating top
clans such as LA etc...
#152006-05-31 17:30 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)
Zanne: my opinion has nothing to do with creating a divide
between NQR and EQL. I would just rather that we kept QW
"for the fun", and I'm worried that the idea of
"serious" competition will turn our community
rather sour. I'm all for making our community bigger but if
that means we are getting players who are only in it for the
money then I'm not going to support that.
But please tell me how this will give me something more to
play for? You said yourself that prize money will only go to
division 1, and we are a top 5 div 2 clan. There is no way
we can challenge the best clans, and therefore I see no
personal incentive for me to support this idea.
I guess I'm just an idealist who doesn't want to see this
great game selling out.
#162006-05-31 17:32 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)
bps: I'm aware of this sarskrivning thing, someone told me
about it before. But still, no need to inject English with
sar skrivning eh ;)
#172006-05-31 17:49 by willg (217.209.92.XXX)
i think sponsormoney should be used for servers, webpages,
i've seen and tasted 'progaming' with prizemoney involved.
And it is not fun.
#182006-05-31 17:54 by error (213.114.99.XXX)
I aree with willg. The money could be better used to get
someone to make qtv better and easier to use. This qizmo
thing is quite old.
#192006-05-31 18:21 by almeida (213.113.151.XXX)
i cant see any whine in CPL when the geeks plays CS
#202006-05-31 18:24 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
id say use the money for hosting good servers
we need more servers like wargamez where most clans can play
with good conditions
and i totally agree with gaz and #14
new players will never win div1 anyway, so maybe they will
play one season in div4-5 and get raped to hell and then
quit because they figured out it takes like 10 years to be
#212006-05-31 18:30 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
btw its great that eql will put up a summercup, activity
will be zero without some sort of tournament during the
could someone also reset the "nqr winterladder 2"
and make it nqr summerladder cuz ladder is also great during
the summer (i know some think ladder is lol but some teams
think its fun to add "pracs" to a site and count
the points so to speak)
#222006-05-31 18:36 by qmole (193.108.218.XXX)
I don't think prizemoney would change the attitudes of most
div1 players. If people were in it for the money, they'd
play q4 or whatever. We'll never attract the kind of
progamers the top games get, so I don't think 'selling out'
is a concern.
Furthermore, div1 is already ultra-competitive, to the point
that clans will refuse to play each other in anything less
than ideal conditions. It's all about winning. Recall the
seasons where the top clans didn't have to (and so didn't)
play each other during the regular season and yet still made
the playoff spots.
I think there's perhaps too much leniency shown to the top
clans. I'm sure you remember the days of the UKCL gaz where
the time, server and even maps would be fixed for each game.
Sure, most clans are capable of organising themselves, but
add a little competition and things get more complicated.
How many times has the EQL final been rescheduled now? 4?
And how much delay will there be when it finally does get
Anyway, my point is, that adding prizemoney would force
strict rules regarding pings, scheduling matches, walkovers
and so on. It'd be difficult. But I suspect a *lot* more
games will get played on time. That's a good thing. There'll
inevitably be more players returning to the game, and more
competition for the top spots, leading to better games
overall. That's surely good. I think you're kidding yourself
if you don't believe div1 players take it seriously already
However, willg (as always) makes a good point. I suspect
it's more difficult to find sponsors for, say, developing
QTV than it is for the leagues though. 500 euros isn't going
to keep a coder interested for long :) I say, give zanne and
the EQL guys a chance to try this out. It's a good start. If
it doesn't work out, reflect and know better for next time.
#232006-05-31 19:12 by I fake since theres no money in (83.216.101.XXX)
Yes, agree with qmole. Well said/written!
#242006-05-31 19:18 by HighlandeR (83.20.162.XXX)
#14: you missunderstood me
I didnt mean that prizemoney will encourage noobs to play qw
coz they can win some money, but that it could motivate
clans like LA or CMF to play their games.
div1 season is just full of WO's and that SUX.
500 euro for a team is rather symbolic reward, greed wont
own QW because of that.
#252006-05-31 19:38 by [dc]panczo (87.105.250.XXX)
great idea imo
#262006-05-31 20:39 by Stev (194.165.175.XXX)
Who decides who gets the prize money in each team? What
about the people in the winning clan who can't make it into
the first team? We could see trimming of top clans in order
to reduce prize sharing. What effect would that have on the
#272006-05-31 22:03 by ?ke Vader (217.209.220.XXX)
Imo getting rid of some players to get more people to share
the money sounds perfectly legit to me - as long as the
clans play their games, i'm happy. :) I guess that the money
would be handed out to the team leader who then split it
among the players or whatever. These are only my personal
I think we should try this whole idea and see if it works
out at all. Would be nice if it had some good effects on the
league anyway. Maybe more of the good players in semi-good
clans would step up to the task of creating a division 1
team? Who knows. ;)
However, i don't think this will attract loads of new
players to the game. If that's what we're after then we need
organizations like CPL to arrange QW tournaments on a
regular basis and we all know that won't happen. ;)
#282006-05-31 23:34 by Hagge (83.233.145.XXX)
the clanleader should decide that imo.. and the admins pays
as much money as the clanleader says to each player
involved.. if a team wants to share the money on all their
20 members (cmf probably has 20 yeeeas) they can do that..
it's up to them!?!
#292006-05-31 23:35 by Smith (82.199.191.XXX)
haha goddamn commies!!!!! why don't you move to cuba and go
cuddle with fidel?? money motivates people and is therefore
great. 500? is squat really, but it's a start. i think it's
a great effort to save this quickly dying game!
#302006-05-31 23:51 by angua (82.182.32.XXX)
"Furthermore, div1 is already ultra-competitive, to the
point that clans will refuse to play each other in anything
less than ideal conditions. It's all about winning."
Not true qmole, that is "specific-clan-issues".
The only clans we have demanded equal pings versus are tvs
#312006-06-01 00:50 by qmole (193.108.218.XXX)
I guess I was exaggerating slightly angua :) Didn't mean to
imply that happened *every* game. But I was talking about
clans delaying so they have their best lineup, or until
they'd had enough prac and so on. This seems to happen a lot
in the big games... it's normal for the top teams to not
play each other in the regular season. There's 3 matches in
particular (and one between the two clans in the final) that
didn't get played.
I guess it's because they don't want to lose unless they
have to, or because there'd be so much whine it wouldn't be
I think the clans should make more of an effort to make the
league a priority and work around it, instead of the league
working around the players and making exceptions for the top
clans. It's not difficult to leave one night a week free for
qw. Everyone would like to have more prac, but I don't like
seeing games continuously delayed :(
I know cMF will play with 'weaker' lineups, non-ideal pings
and so on. But then, I wouldn't expect you to show any less
sportsmanship if there was money involved. I don't think the
attitude of those 'specific clans' is going to change a
great deal either way.
#322006-06-01 07:58 by -insane- (83.27.155.XXX)
"I think the clans should make more of an effort to
make the league a priority and work around it, instead of
the league working around the players and making exceptions
for the top clans"
Well said qmole :)
#332006-06-01 08:56 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)
I agree with qmole.
What we have to remember in all this is that it's still
going to be a game, and for sure it wont get ruined because
of 500?, that's just lame to state - QW hasnt been ruined by
3 followers, a gaming influence of CS nor by QuakeNet
becoming CSNet, it wont get ruined by 500? - Im sure the old
lady has some shelter for that.
What I want with this money is to encourage div1 players
that rather play with newbies in a lower division to
actually use their skill where it's supposed to be used, to
encourage the div1 clans that's giving WO in a semifinal, to
encourage players to come back to the scene and to make the
div2 clans struggle to get up there rather than feeling
comfterble in div2.
Players might leave their div1 clan because they dont get
the playtime they want and create their own div1 clan, hence
more activity in div1.
About the sharing of the prizemoney, it's simple, the money
will be handed out to the leader of the winning clan, he
then possesses the money and can do whatever he wants with
it - I dont think anyone that has a div1 clan would screw
his clanmates over, but that might become an issue (?)
#342006-06-01 08:58 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)
And btw Gaz, the obvious reason for not paying of a
div2-3-4-5 winning clan is that players will just leave
their higher div clan to join up with a lower clan just to
#352006-06-01 10:07 by ?ke Vader (217.209.220.XXX)
Maybe it's a bit bold but...maybe strictly scheduled games
could be tried too...?
#362006-06-01 10:42 by Link (213.203.33.XXX)
Hi guys :>
Ordinary sports have done this for decades. So how do they
do it? Answer: the players of the game pay a FEE to the
FEDERATION. The FEDERATION can then EMPLOY ppl to set up all
the necessary administration and organizing you need to
satisfy the players needs. EVERYTHING costs money (backbone,
servers, etc etc). In ordinary sports, all you do is show up
and play. You dont need to call your opponent and ask
"can you play now?". You dont need to find an
arena to play on. The FEDERATION takes care of EVERYTHING.
All you do is show up and play. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS...and
that is the reason you pay for playing.
Since this has been going on for decades in ordinary sports,
it is now common and normal to pay a fee to pay. You grow up
As long as it is FREE to play (in other words: anarchy), you
will never get it serious. Just look at MMORPG, they PAY to
play, and get what they want, 24/7.
My point is: You can debate as long as you will about this
issue, but as long as you dont do a; copy --> paste from
ordinary sports to esports, it will never get
serious...NEVER. Atm, the only thing that works in esports
You got 1 major problem you need to deal with to get this
right: PLAYING CONDITIONS MUST BE FAIR ... or who wants to
pay if they are not? This can be done by routing every
client better, and set up servers so that you get as equal
ping as possible. In other words: "A virtual gaming
ISP". Wouldnt you pay 7 EURO a month to get 30 ms all
over EU? Wouldnt you pay 7 EURO a month to play your game
just like ordinary sports does it?
Now think about how many millions of ppl who would pay for
this, then add it up, and you understand the potential.
Until the above is solved: Forget it.
Sorry to say so :)
#372006-06-01 11:15 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
haha i was so waiting for link to comment on this...
I would pay up to 10euro a month to play qw if it meant
better pings and better organization.
BUT i also think that qw is ok as it is if we dont involve
prizemoney, i guess either we have links vision or we dont
have prizemoney at all...
#382006-06-01 11:18 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
btw link, there are some ppl who dont enjoy playing with
above 13ms 8)
#392006-06-01 11:22 by Link (213.203.33.XXX)
You need pricemoney. Because in order to get the best
players to play on a FIXED SCHDULE, is to give them that.
Then you simply just add this rule:
YOU MUST PLAY ALL YOUR GAMES AT THE SCHDULED TIMES TO GET
Money = King.
#402006-06-01 11:24 by Link (213.203.33.XXX)
Sorry for spelling wrong =| Hooraytio: so what? If they dont
want the money, then someone else will.
#412006-06-01 11:50 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
maybe, anyway i dont see this happening in qw, ppl paying to
play and all the other ideas
but atleast you are correct about it, what you say must be
done in order to have prizemoney
#422006-06-01 11:51 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
hmm my head keeps telling me to spell it
id better go study instead..
#432006-06-01 12:20 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)
No no no, if we would take a fee for playing in EQL, we
would lose 90% of the players we have, leaving 10% left (at
most 30 players?) which is about 5-6 clans.
It should be free to play QW, I mean we dont sponsor teams
here we dont have any serious business going on, everything
is free. I dont believe Link and I absolutley dont agree
with him that it's the only solution. However, a fixed
schedule, an admin to monitor each game (since it's a fixed
schedule) and if neither teams cant play for some reason the
game will be a draw, if one team doesn't show up within, say
a 10min margin, the other team gets W.O.
Doing this would also require stuff like "NO SPECIAL
CASES" etc, Im sure alot of players would get pissed
off but still that was my first intention with eql, however
within the crew it got voted down. But this would clearly
get more games played IMO, especially if there's money
involved, it also means better orginization from the crew
since we know exactly when the games are being played. We
can also host more commentry on regular games in all
I think fixed schedule would solve a whole lot of problems,
we'll discuss it I guess. There WILL however be a prizepool
in div1, and if it dont work out then we'll just skip it in
EQL5, but as for eql4 there will be a prizepool.
#442006-06-01 12:28 by zanne (195.198.202.XXX)
*NOTE* It was NOT my first intention to piss players off,
but to have a fixed schedule ;)
#452006-06-01 14:24 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)
in the first season of fixed dates/times there will be some
amount of WO since players are not used to it
but if u continue using it i guess most ppl will get used to
it and start deciding what days are best for qw and try to
stick to it
#462006-06-01 17:06 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)
many half-serious clans with maybe only 4-5 players will
whine on scheduled games, because they'll give priority to
"meet up with a friend"(or whatever else) rather
than play the scheduled game. A possible future is therefor
and I would personally support the idea of paying for better
conditions and administration.
and gaz, even dag has been n00b. just start praccing
12h/day, and you might take home the 500?! it's not
impossible, although it's a long journey :)
#472006-06-01 17:16 by gaz (195.72.182.XXX)
Heh, 12 hours practice a day for just 500 euros isn't really
that good value considering that I earn a good wage in my
current dayjob :E
#482006-06-01 18:14 by bps (85.225.140.XXX)
now you forget the fun in it, 12h of qw feels like 5mins,
but with daytime job it can feel like an eternity... qw ftw?
#492006-06-01 23:21 by ?ke Vader (217.209.220.XXX)
People can play football (both practice and matches) on
scheduled times but not Quakeworld, that's a bit weird imo.
I dunno if you need that bigger clans to get this thing
working. But sure, clans with a core lineup of only four
players with substitutes who almost never could play would
have a hard time, i realize that.
Anyway, an idea like this is to get more games played and on
specific dates. It will be easier for specs to keep track on
(could have a _real_ "upcoming games" feature) and
we would see more diversity in the squads in the group
stages and then we get xxx super playoffs because that's
when the serious business really begins and clans can aim to
field all of their best players.
#502006-06-02 09:33 by QW-player (195.84.66.XXX)
Im just chocked to see ppl being opposed to something like a
prizepool in QW. I think that its exactly whats needed now
to blow some steam into division 1 with more matches and
pracs played. We all know what a positive effect an active
division 1 has on the lower divisions, and this combined
with everyone working harder to get better would OF COURSE
lead to a bigger and more active scene. To whine about whine
is just a bad paradox and the whine before games is just a
healthy sign that ppl still care about fair playing and
winning in this game. And yes, an exact ruleset for handling
ping is really one of the big challenges for eql 4, that and
making people pay for not respecting the admins.
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"Ideas for EQL4")Created by term on 2006-06-13